Bali keris of unknown origin

Rick · 14th May 2022, 04:05 AM

I was surprised to see the face of Lord Ganesha on this style of ukiran.

David · 14th May 2022, 01:54 PM

Nothing much to add to what Alan said. I do really like the blade. The hilt is a strange mix for me. Also i can't recall seeing a wrapped gandar like that on Bali keris. If i knew what the wood looked like underneath i would almost be inclined to remove it. It does look a bit loose in the wrapping, especially the upper part so you could possible push it aside a little and have a peek.

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2022, 02:37 PM

Yes David, its a nice keris, but a dealer who knew very little about keris got hold of it along the way and dressed it incorrectly, as it is, it is regrettably a very bad joke, almost an insult.

The hilt should be removed and put in a bottom drawer somewhere, then replaced with one that is free of insult. Clearly the carver had no idea at all of what he was supposed to be carving.

The pendok should be removed and if the gandar is even halfway passable it could live without the pendok. The gandar could be lacquered if it is a bit ordinary, lacquer would be better than what is on it now.

David · 14th May 2022, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I was surprised to see the face of Lord Ganesha on this style of ukiran.

I have a similar hilt that shows a Ganesha like face with the right hand position of Nawa Sari. While my blade is indeed an older one i suspect the hilt is likely kamardikan, so may be like this one a mixing of characters.

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2022, 09:37 PM

Do yourself a favour David, and replace it.

Wrapped up and into the back of the bottom drawer.

David · 14th May 2022, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Do yourself a favour David, and replace it.

Wrapped up and into the back of the bottom drawer.

It could happen one day. This keris needs a bit before it would be ready for court wear anyway. I found it rusting away in a curio shop window with no sheath. So that is more likely a necessity before i think about replacing the hilt. But no worries. I have no illusions that this is an good hilt. Just wanted to show that such combinations have been done more than once.

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2022, 11:42 PM

Yeah, we've had the Bali Hilt discussion more times than once in the past.

There are a number of factors involved, I personally think that the major one is that most hilts in the modern era have not been carved by religiously conscious people, and only done for decorative effect, but there is the other thing too:- a lot of so-called "Balinese Carving" is actually done in other places where wage rates are lower.

I used to know a young bloke in Solo whose father carved perfectly beautiful small sculptures that were sold through a couple of Ubud galleries as Balinese. The Sumenep craftsmen have been carving for the Balinese market for years.

I might have seen this particular "Nawanesha" combination before, but I don't remember it, I tend to quickly pass over things for sale in Bali that are outside the bounds of tradition.

Marcokeris · 15th May 2022, 03:01 PM

Just to stay on the topic of discussion I post a photo of two wooden Madura hilts made for Bali market

A. G. Maisey · 15th May 2022, 11:00 PM

But they can produce fine quality hilts in Madura too Marco. There is a carver lives away from Sumenep, I forget the name of the place, "Bhu---" something or other, and his work is very good indeed.

Actually, the best Balinese carvers have priced themselves out of the market, and I'm not talking just keris hilts, I'm talking the entire swath of Balinese carving.

The recognised Grand Master of Balinese hilts --- I will not mention his name --- is now so expensive that he really only needs to sell one hilt a year to have a comfortable lifestyle.

His son --- or maybe its his son-in-law, I'm not clear on this --- has jacked up his prices into the realm of major art works too. Not as expensive as the Old Man, but too expensive for me.

In Solo the wood carving industry is centered on the village of Serinan, carvers from Jepara on the north coast came there years ago and settled when the competition in Jepara became too tough. All that very high quality mahogany & teak furniture that we see in expensive shops all across the world mostly comes from Serinan, and a niche market in Serinan is the making of fine Balinese style carvings, produced at a fraction of the cost that the Balinese carvers ask.

When I say "Serinan" I'm not talking just about that village, I'm referring to all the carvers in the broader Solo area who are associated with the Serinan trade.

I used to buy from a dealer in Badung, he passed about ten years ago, I dealt with him for around 35 years. He used to get very angry with both the local carvers for increasing their prices, and with the people who had generated the stuff that was produced in other places in Bali style. To his way of thinking both these groups of people were undermining the local economy in Bali.

15th May 2022, 03:01 PM	#8
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Just to stay on the topic of discussion I post a photo of two wooden Madura hilts made for Bali market Attached Images

14th May 2022, 04:05 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I was surprised to see the face of Lord Ganesha on this style of ukiran.

14th May 2022, 01:54 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Nothing much to add to what Alan said. I do really like the blade. The hilt is a strange mix for me. Also i can't recall seeing a wrapped gandar like that on Bali keris. If i knew what the wood looked like underneath i would almost be inclined to remove it. It does look a bit loose in the wrapping, especially the upper part so you could possible push it aside a little and have a peek.

14th May 2022, 02:37 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes David, its a nice keris, but a dealer who knew very little about keris got hold of it along the way and dressed it incorrectly, as it is, it is regrettably a very bad joke, almost an insult. The hilt should be removed and put in a bottom drawer somewhere, then replaced with one that is free of insult. Clearly the carver had no idea at all of what he was supposed to be carving. The pendok should be removed and if the gandar is even halfway passable it could live without the pendok. The gandar could be lacquered if it is a bit ordinary, lacquer would be better than what is on it now.

14th May 2022, 09:37 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Do yourself a favour David, and replace it. Wrapped up and into the back of the bottom drawer.

14th May 2022, 11:42 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yeah, we've had the Bali Hilt discussion more times than once in the past. There are a number of factors involved, I personally think that the major one is that most hilts in the modern era have not been carved by religiously conscious people, and only done for decorative effect, but there is the other thing too:- a lot of so-called "Balinese Carving" is actually done in other places where wage rates are lower. I used to know a young bloke in Solo whose father carved perfectly beautiful small sculptures that were sold through a couple of Ubud galleries as Balinese. The Sumenep craftsmen have been carving for the Balinese market for years. I might have seen this particular "Nawanesha" combination before, but I don't remember it, I tend to quickly pass over things for sale in Bali that are outside the bounds of tradition.

15th May 2022, 11:00 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	But they can produce fine quality hilts in Madura too Marco. There is a carver lives away from Sumenep, I forget the name of the place, "Bhu---" something or other, and his work is very good indeed. Actually, the best Balinese carvers have priced themselves out of the market, and I'm not talking just keris hilts, I'm talking the entire swath of Balinese carving. The recognised Grand Master of Balinese hilts --- I will not mention his name --- is now so expensive that he really only needs to sell one hilt a year to have a comfortable lifestyle. His son --- or maybe its his son-in-law, I'm not clear on this --- has jacked up his prices into the realm of major art works too. Not as expensive as the Old Man, but too expensive for me. In Solo the wood carving industry is centered on the village of Serinan, carvers from Jepara on the north coast came there years ago and settled when the competition in Jepara became too tough. All that very high quality mahogany & teak furniture that we see in expensive shops all across the world mostly comes from Serinan, and a niche market in Serinan is the making of fine Balinese style carvings, produced at a fraction of the cost that the Balinese carvers ask. When I say "Serinan" I'm not talking just about that village, I'm referring to all the carvers in the broader Solo area who are associated with the Serinan trade. I used to buy from a dealer in Badung, he passed about ten years ago, I dealt with him for around 35 years. He used to get very angry with both the local carvers for increasing their prices, and with the people who had generated the stuff that was produced in other places in Bali style. To his way of thinking both these groups of people were undermining the local economy in Bali.