Scottish Pistol Pair

[Raf]

Surprisingly no one has pointed out that the lock internals show a remarkable similarity to a 53 Enfield. Note the swivel link to mainspring and the wedged mainspring attachment . Features that become more common in the percussion period arguing a date more towards the 1840s. The fact that they seem to have avoided proof is worrying but what is more concerning is the lack of a bolster to the barrel tang. Meaning that there is no effective way of screwing in the breech plug. If there is no evidence of a screwed in breech plug the barrels have to have been machined from the solid which is obviously completely contrary to functional firearms practice , at least in this period. Having said that I still don't think they are copies , reproductions , Indian or otherwise. I know its clutching at straws but I am beginning to wonder if they were made as non functional regalia in the early Victorian period. Congratulations on the fine pairs of pistols you posted.

[Tordenskiold1721]

Yes both locks has springs and screws but also some differences.

The lock is fasted with the main screw from the belt hock and a screw in the front as I have seen is done on most Scottish pistols:

[Raf]

Looking at the new photographs of the internals Im sorry to say this just does not look credible as a period lock . Well at least we tried .Please ignore my comments about the barrel bolster . I simply misread the photographs.

[Tordenskiold1721]

Originally Posted by Raf

Looking at the new photographs of the internals Im sorry to say this just does not look credible as a period lock . Well at least we tried .Please ignore my comments about the barrel bolster . I simply misread the photographs.

I took one of my louse locks from Danish M/1794 musket to compare. The only difference is were the main spring connects. Otherwise no period-development difference. Photo below. I respect detailed information and refernces to literature with a photo or that somone show their own Scottish pistols as an example using it to explain a point.

Its a lot of statments but very little examples nor anything specific other than, Indian copy, Victorian Copy, looks like a springfiield lock, not period.

All of this comments could be right but most has been proven wrong such as Udo's idea about the screws and others on how the barrels are connected etc. So I apologize to the forum if I don't put any more energy into the next one that says "Chinese copy". Unless it is backed up with something credible.

[fernando]

No hard feelings, Tordenskiold. Given that your pistols don't have any characteristics that link them to a determined pattern, like a certain decoration, simple or complex, or the signature of a known smith, more or less famous, it is not surprising that members give a try and suggest they have this or that provenance. No bad intent in that.

[Tordenskiold1721]

Originally Posted by fernando

No hard feelings, Tordenskiold. Given that your pistols don't have any characteristics that link them to a determined pattern, like a certain decoration, simple or complex, or the signature of a known smith, more or less famous, it is not surprising that members give a try and suggest they have this or that provenance. No bad intent in that.

Absolutly no bad intention read into it from my side. I'm just trying to find out what this pistols are, as you point out no known smith stamp or signature or decorations. Just plain correctly made Scottish / Scottish style pistols with a lot of questions.

35 years ago I would have thought they were fantasy pistols myself

You have lots of users here and I was hoping somone would know. I'm sure there is, but until then I just have to wait.

Keep up the great work !!!

[Fernando K]

Hi Tordenkiold,

A look at Google "scottish pistols reproduction" shows the number of reproductions that are available. I do not have access to any reproduction, I live in South America, nor do I have access to the pieces that motivate this dialogue or discussion.
I allow myself to upload this image, as an example, produced by myAmoury.com.

Affectionately

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Tordenskiold1721

... You have lots of users here and I was hoping somone would know. I'm sure there is, but until then I just have to wait...

I sincerely hope that someone familiar with the precise model of your pistols show up with an expected identification. So far, current members tend to bear in mind that, besides rust and patina being nowadays possible to create by fake specialists, reproductions made in South Asia (India) are available out there, vent picks usually terminate in a thinner spike and there is not a minimum decoration detail, even the often seen oval in the butt. As for the 'apparently' crude aspect of your examples, you have them in your hands, you can judge better; notwithstanding such situation alone does not necessarily define whether the gun is genuine or a repro... in principle.