Your thoughts on this rapier?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by werecow

... I thought it might be a reference to Pedro del Monte or even Pedro Hernandez, but there is no last name it seems,

There should be some written stuff in both sides ... as usual. Something like PEDRO DEL in one side and MONTE EN TOLEDO in the other.
But i am only guessing on the name, of course.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by fernando

There should be some written stuff in both sides ... as usual. Something like PEDRO DEL in one side and MONTE EN TOLEDO in the other.
But i am only guessing on the name, of course.

There is writing there (3rd picture) but all I've been able to make out is G R ET (or I suppose with a bit of imagination it could be a degraded "FECIT") and I'm not really sure about any of it.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by werecow

There is writing there (3rd picture) but all I've been able to make out is G R ET (or I suppose with a bit of imagination it could be a degraded "FECIT") and I'm not really sure about any of it.

So ... looking better at the 3rd picture, it should read GARAETA, a Basque smith name mispelled by Palomares as Lagaretea.
"Este hecho se produce especialmente en el caso de los de raiz vasca, como Pedro Lagaretea por Pedro de Garaeta"
He is reported to have worked both in Bilbao and Toledo.


.

[cornelistromp]

What a coincidence, Iam from Leiden and I was bidding on this rapier yesterday afternoon, bought a hunting sword so we can combine shipping :-)
I stopped at a certain point because I was not sure if there was a crack at the quilon near the ricasso block, It may be ok, it was not clear on the photos

nevertheless concrats the rapier is beautiful, early and rare.


The Rapier is Italian 1540-1560, Norman Type 32, if you have the book have a look at plate 21. there are similar examples in the Met , the wallace collection and stibbert museum.


@ Fernando yes I came also to PEDRO DEL.........AGARETA

best,
jasper

[Merenti]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

What a coincidence, Iam from Leiden and I was bidding on this rapier yesterday afternoon, bought a hunting sword so we can combine shipping :-)
I stopped at a certain point because I was not sure if there was a crack at the quilon near the ricasso block, It may be ok, it was not clear on the photos

nevertheless concrats the rapier is beautiful, early and rare.


The Rapier is Italian 1540-1560, Norman Type 32, if you have the book have a look at plate 21. there are similar examples in the Met , the wallace collection and stibbert museum.


@ Fernando yes I came also to PEDRO DEL.........AGARETA

best,
jasper

what is the name of the book?

[werecow]

Originally Posted by fernando

So ... looking better at the 3rd picture, it should read GARAETA, a Basque smith name mispelled by Palomares as Lagaretea.
"Este hecho se produce especialmente en el caso de los de raiz vasca, como Pedro Lagaretea por Pedro de Garaeta"
He is reported to have worked both in Bilbao and Toledo.

Ah, so there's a third Pedro! The plot thickens. I had heard of the other two before but not this one.

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

What a coincidence, Iam from Leiden and I was bidding on this rapier yesterday afternoon, bought a hunting sword so we can combine shipping :-)
I stopped at a certain point because I was not sure if there was a crack at the quilon near the ricasso block, It may be ok, it was not clear on the photos

nevertheless concrats the rapier is beautiful, early and rare.


The Rapier is Italian 1540-1560, Norman Type 32, if you have the book have a look at plate 21. there are similar examples in the Met , the wallace collection and stibbert museum.


@ Fernando yes I came also to PEDRO DEL.........AGARETA

Ha! I knew you were Dutch from lurking on the forums for a while, but I had no idea you were from Leiden. Small world/country!

Thanks for the reference, that's a pretty close one, as is the one in the Norman book. Which book is the one you posted the screenshot from?

But re: Shipping; alas, as noted I did not get the sword, I just wanted to see if I was on the right track with my thinking and to learn a bit more about the engravings / markings. The world of renaissance rapier collecting is a bit daunting for a novice collector so it's good to be able to check whether I'm not just chasing obvious fakes (I half-expected someone here to raise their hand and say something to the effect of "those proportions are completely wrong and it's an antiqued €25 Marto wallhanger from the early 2000s" ). At least this may give me a small amount of confidence the next time around.

[cornelistromp]

@werecow
Il museo Stibbert -Boccia book 3 **

@ merenti
the rapier and small-sword 1460-1820-Norman and Barne

[Merenti]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

@werecow
Il museo Stibbert -Boccia book 3 **

@ merenti
the rapier and small-sword 1460-1820-Norman and Barne

Thank u 👍🏻

[fernando]

Originally Posted by werecow

... Ah, so there's a third Pedro! The plot thickens. I had heard of the other two before but not this one ...

There were many sword smiths called Pedro in Toledo during that period, werecow .


.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by fernando

There were many sword smiths called Pedro in Toledo during that period, werecow .

And apparently even more Franciscos! I feel like there is a Renaissance sword-making comedy sketch in there somewhere.

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

What a coincidence, Iam from Leiden and I was bidding on this rapier yesterday afternoon, bought a hunting sword so we can combine shipping :-)
I stopped at a certain point because I was not sure if there was a crack at the quilon near the ricasso block, It may be ok, it was not clear on the photos

nevertheless concrats the rapier is beautiful, early and rare.


The Rapier is Italian 1540-1560, Norman Type 32, if you have the book have a look at plate 21. there are similar examples in the Met , the wallace collection and stibbert museum.


@ Fernando yes I came also to PEDRO DEL.........AGARETA

best,
jasper

It is indeed mid 16th c and very rare as it is, its even more rare to find it in a condition like this uncleaned and unmolested . For rapiers or swords this rare the condition matters less than items you can find in better condition.
I mean if one would decide to wait untill a better one come's along that is also for sale and all original like this one , it could be you would need to wait longer than the swords age itself.
kind regards
Ulfberth

[ulfberth]

After some carefull cleaning I can confirm it is indeed PEDRO DEL GARAETA.
The condition is good enough for me condsidering its age.
More important its complete not missing anything and the blade is still at full lenght, including original gripwire. There are not that many of these around either.
kind regards
Ulfberth

[werecow]

Very nice piece ulfberth. Congrats! I should've known someone from this message board got it. Very jealous.

Is that indeed a green man on the pommel?

[Merenti]

Originally Posted by ulfberth

After some carefull cleaning I can confirm it is indeed PEDRO DEL GARAETA.
The condition is good enough for me condsidering its age.
More important its complete not missing anything and the blade is still at full lenght, including original gripwire. There are not that many of these around either.
kind regards
Ulfberth

hey Dirk, congratulations on the beautiful rapier. From this point of view it is really a beautiful old and rare piece.

Markus

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by fernando

There should be some written stuff in both sides ... as usual. Something like PEDRO DEL in one side and MONTE EN TOLEDO in the other.
But i am only guessing on the name, of course.