A clay grenade

Raf · 13th April 2022, 03:35 PM

By grenade do we mean as in having an internal fuse. Presumably a wood plug with a hole in it filled with compressed meal designed to burn for a measured amount of time before exploding . Or an incendiary device as in Molotov cocktail. Having an external burning element, like a piece of tarry rope designed to set fire to the contents after the grenade shattered on impact . Quoting from a 1639 Tower of London inventory.

Powder Pots of earth.
Earthen bottels to be made in a round fashion ... half full of serpentine powder or somewhat more, there is also to be mixt with a quantity of Hoggs grease, Oyle of stone , Brimstone, saltpetre twice refined. Aqua vitae, pitch...

Sounds like the latter to me.

fernando · 13th April 2022, 04:51 PM

Maybe this PDF gives some further light to it ...

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Raf · 13th April 2022, 05:17 PM

Yes. The sectioned example does look like what you would expect from a fused grenade with an explosive charge.

Andi · 13th April 2022, 07:10 PM

Helllo Raf

The source you quoted from the 1639 Inventory of the Tower of London is very interesting, can you please tell me where it is published?

Fernandos grenade, which comes from the Ingolstadt find is an explosive grenade- These grenades work through the fragments of the vessel parts shattered by the explosive charge they contain. In the more than 500 grenades examined so far, we have found no evidence that the black powder charge was mixed with other objects such as iron splinters, stones, flint pieces or the like.

The ones in the London inventory sound more like fire or lime pots (in German: Sturmtöpfe). Similar to a mordern molotov cocktail.
All this military fireworks is very interesting. Here is a link to our German webpage about such devices: https://www.bummsbrigade.de/index.ph...feuerwerk.html (unfortunately only a view pages are available in English so far)

Raf · 13th April 2022, 07:37 PM

Quoted by Chris Henry in English Civil war Artillery 1642-51 . Osprey publishing.

This extract from School of the art of Gunnery 1643 is relevant.

How to make Fuses.
Every Ball hath a hole, left to put in a Fuse or piece of wood just like a Faucet for a spigot, this hole must be one quarter the diameter of the woodden Fuse, which Fuse must be in length three quarters the height of the Granade, made taper, and when filled with composition driven gently in amongst the powder that is in the ball, leaving a lit∣tle of it without: the composition for this Fuse is made thus: take one pound of Pow∣der, foure ounces of Salt-peeter, and one of Brimstone, first beaten to powder, and sif∣ted in a serce severally; these ingredients being mixed together, your composition is made fit for use.

fernando · 13th April 2022, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andi;271133...[url

https://www.bummsbrigade.de/index.php/de/zeug/feuerwerk.html[/url] (unfortunately only a view pages are available in English so far)

Now the whole page automatically translated to Portuguese

. I like the pitch garlands; i have one of those

.

Raf · 13th April 2022, 08:08 PM

So you will like this then. From the art of gunnery again

How to make fiery Wheels, to be cast with mens hands.

Because every souldier wil not meddle with hand Granadoes, the using of them being somwhat dangerous, I will here teach another kinde of Fire-works which is little lesse offensive, for the making thereof, you are to use these ingredients: Take four pound of Gunpowder in dust, one pound of Charcole dust, two pound of Tar, two of Salt-peeter, and one pound of Ro∣sin; all these ingredients being well incorpo∣rated, and heat over the fire, steep tow or flax in the same, and then wrap the tow, and flax about a hoop, and then cover all this a∣gain with Gunpowder dust; and in time of need give fire to them, & cast them amongst your enemies, this is to be observed, that the hoops ought not to be too large, but falling upon a many souldiers they may there stay and stick, and •o make them more trouble∣some, and entangling, two of them may be tyed a-crosse one another; and then falling upon any man he cannot choose but be much astonished, with such a fearfull element, and put his company in great disorder.

Andi · 13th April 2022, 08:40 PM

Fernando, I envy you your collection!

it sounds that The School of the art of Gunnery 1643 perfectly corresponds to German works.

13th April 2022, 03:35 PM	#1
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	By grenade do we mean as in having an internal fuse. Presumably a wood plug with a hole in it filled with compressed meal designed to burn for a measured amount of time before exploding . Or an incendiary device as in Molotov cocktail. Having an external burning element, like a piece of tarry rope designed to set fire to the contents after the grenade shattered on impact . Quoting from a 1639 Tower of London inventory. Powder Pots of earth. Earthen bottels to be made in a round fashion ... half full of serpentine powder or somewhat more, there is also to be mixt with a quantity of Hoggs grease, Oyle of stone , Brimstone, saltpetre twice refined. Aqua vitae, pitch... Sounds like the latter to me.

13th April 2022, 05:17 PM	#3
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Yes. The sectioned example does look like what you would expect from a fused grenade with an explosive charge.

13th April 2022, 07:10 PM	#4
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Helllo Raf The source you quoted from the 1639 Inventory of the Tower of London is very interesting, can you please tell me where it is published? Fernandos grenade, which comes from the Ingolstadt find is an explosive grenade- These grenades work through the fragments of the vessel parts shattered by the explosive charge they contain. In the more than 500 grenades examined so far, we have found no evidence that the black powder charge was mixed with other objects such as iron splinters, stones, flint pieces or the like. The ones in the London inventory sound more like fire or lime pots (in German: Sturmtöpfe). Similar to a mordern molotov cocktail. All this military fireworks is very interesting. Here is a link to our German webpage about such devices: https://www.bummsbrigade.de/index.ph...feuerwerk.html (unfortunately only a view pages are available in English so far)

13th April 2022, 07:37 PM	#5
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Quoted by Chris Henry in English Civil war Artillery 1642-51 . Osprey publishing. This extract from School of the art of Gunnery 1643 is relevant. How to make Fuses. Every Ball hath a hole, left to put in a Fuse or piece of wood just like a Faucet for a spigot, this hole must be one quarter the diameter of the woodden Fuse, which Fuse must be in length three quarters the height of the Granade, made taper, and when filled with composition driven gently in amongst the powder that is in the ball, leaving a lit∣tle of it without: the composition for this Fuse is made thus: take one pound of Pow∣der, foure ounces of Salt-peeter, and one of Brimstone, first beaten to powder, and sif∣ted in a serce severally; these ingredients being mixed together, your composition is made fit for use.

13th April 2022, 08:08 PM	#7
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	So you will like this then. From the art of gunnery again How to make fiery Wheels, to be cast with mens hands. Because every souldier wil not meddle with hand Granadoes, the using of them being somwhat dangerous, I will here teach another kinde of Fire-works which is little lesse offensive, for the making thereof, you are to use these ingredients: Take four pound of Gunpowder in dust, one pound of Charcole dust, two pound of Tar, two of Salt-peeter, and one pound of Ro∣sin; all these ingredients being well incorpo∣rated, and heat over the fire, steep tow or flax in the same, and then wrap the tow, and flax about a hoop, and then cover all this a∣gain with Gunpowder dust; and in time of need give fire to them, & cast them amongst your enemies, this is to be observed, that the hoops ought not to be too large, but falling upon a many souldiers they may there stay and stick, and •o make them more trouble∣some, and entangling, two of them may be tyed a-crosse one another; and then falling upon any man he cannot choose but be much astonished, with such a fearfull element, and put his company in great disorder.

13th April 2022, 08:40 PM	#8
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Fernando, I envy you your collection! it sounds that The School of the art of Gunnery 1643 perfectly corresponds to German works.