A clay grenade

fernando · 12th April 2022, 10:23 AM

I later got one of these original fuses. I didn't replace the fake one with this example as it is very fragile.

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Andi · 12th April 2022, 06:54 PM

Dear Fernando

This is the right decision to keep the original fuse in its protective box. I know this piece from our dear friend Matchlock. May he rest in peace.

By the way my wife Chris an I have just finished the data collection on the 501st complete Grenade from the cities Museum of Ingolstadt. Next year we will measure the pieces in the museums exhibition showcase and the fragments to complete the data evaluation on the entire find.

fernando · 13th April 2022, 09:46 AM

Good to know that you are following this subject, Andi

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Raf · 13th April 2022, 03:35 PM

By grenade do we mean as in having an internal fuse. Presumably a wood plug with a hole in it filled with compressed meal designed to burn for a measured amount of time before exploding . Or an incendiary device as in Molotov cocktail. Having an external burning element, like a piece of tarry rope designed to set fire to the contents after the grenade shattered on impact . Quoting from a 1639 Tower of London inventory.

Powder Pots of earth.
Earthen bottels to be made in a round fashion ... half full of serpentine powder or somewhat more, there is also to be mixt with a quantity of Hoggs grease, Oyle of stone , Brimstone, saltpetre twice refined. Aqua vitae, pitch...

Sounds like the latter to me.

fernando · 13th April 2022, 04:51 PM

Maybe this PDF gives some further light to it ...

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Raf · 13th April 2022, 05:17 PM

Yes. The sectioned example does look like what you would expect from a fused grenade with an explosive charge.

Andi · 13th April 2022, 07:10 PM

Helllo Raf

The source you quoted from the 1639 Inventory of the Tower of London is very interesting, can you please tell me where it is published?

Fernandos grenade, which comes from the Ingolstadt find is an explosive grenade- These grenades work through the fragments of the vessel parts shattered by the explosive charge they contain. In the more than 500 grenades examined so far, we have found no evidence that the black powder charge was mixed with other objects such as iron splinters, stones, flint pieces or the like.

The ones in the London inventory sound more like fire or lime pots (in German: Sturmtöpfe). Similar to a mordern molotov cocktail.
All this military fireworks is very interesting. Here is a link to our German webpage about such devices: https://www.bummsbrigade.de/index.ph...feuerwerk.html (unfortunately only a view pages are available in English so far)

12th April 2022, 10:23 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I later got one of these original fuses. I didn't replace the fake one with this example as it is very fragile. . Attached Images

12th April 2022, 06:54 PM	#2
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Dear Fernando This is the right decision to keep the original fuse in its protective box. I know this piece from our dear friend Matchlock. May he rest in peace. By the way my wife Chris an I have just finished the data collection on the 501st complete Grenade from the cities Museum of Ingolstadt. Next year we will measure the pieces in the museums exhibition showcase and the fragments to complete the data evaluation on the entire find.

13th April 2022, 09:46 AM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Good to know that you are following this subject, Andi .

13th April 2022, 03:35 PM	#4
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	By grenade do we mean as in having an internal fuse. Presumably a wood plug with a hole in it filled with compressed meal designed to burn for a measured amount of time before exploding . Or an incendiary device as in Molotov cocktail. Having an external burning element, like a piece of tarry rope designed to set fire to the contents after the grenade shattered on impact . Quoting from a 1639 Tower of London inventory. Powder Pots of earth. Earthen bottels to be made in a round fashion ... half full of serpentine powder or somewhat more, there is also to be mixt with a quantity of Hoggs grease, Oyle of stone , Brimstone, saltpetre twice refined. Aqua vitae, pitch... Sounds like the latter to me.

13th April 2022, 05:17 PM	#6
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Yes. The sectioned example does look like what you would expect from a fused grenade with an explosive charge.

13th April 2022, 07:10 PM	#7
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Helllo Raf The source you quoted from the 1639 Inventory of the Tower of London is very interesting, can you please tell me where it is published? Fernandos grenade, which comes from the Ingolstadt find is an explosive grenade- These grenades work through the fragments of the vessel parts shattered by the explosive charge they contain. In the more than 500 grenades examined so far, we have found no evidence that the black powder charge was mixed with other objects such as iron splinters, stones, flint pieces or the like. The ones in the London inventory sound more like fire or lime pots (in German: Sturmtöpfe). Similar to a mordern molotov cocktail. All this military fireworks is very interesting. Here is a link to our German webpage about such devices: https://www.bummsbrigade.de/index.ph...feuerwerk.html (unfortunately only a view pages are available in English so far)