Keris (or not ?) with chinese handle

Gustav · 8th April 2022, 10:23 AM

Alan, this type of Selut was common in Jogja already around 1900 and most probably at least 20 years earlier. It is depicted in Groneman's plates on some of Karyodikromo's Keris, he calls the motif on this Traptrapan Selut Untuq-Untuq.

The Selut of Athanase seems to be lower in quality, because the upper rim is straight, but low quality in silver is perhaps a bit unusual.

A. G. Maisey · 8th April 2022, 12:52 PM

As I said Gustav, I have never seen an old one.

You have apparently seen some photos of older ones.

Can you tell me where the photos depicting these older examples might be found?

Thank you.

The fact that the upper rim of this selut is straight has nothing at all to do with quality. This hilt must use a selut with a straight upper rim, a scalloped rim used with this hilt would destroy the harmony of the figural carving & in Javanese eyes would be seen as totally out of place.

The scalloped rim that we so often see on planar hilts is a convention used in order to accommodate & emphasise the planes of the hilt.

Gustav · 8th April 2022, 01:17 PM

Alan, exactly, that would include the possibility that the Selut was made to accomodate the figurine turned into hilt.
Regarding more recent Selut, I have seen by far more ones with stright upper rim mated to planar hilts, and this is, what I would call lower quality.

If you have van Duuren's edition of Gronemans articles, photographs of Keris with such Selut can be found on pages 267, 264, possibly of higher quality 251.

I own two Keris with such Selut, both came to Europe before WWI.

Gustav · 8th April 2022, 01:45 PM

One of them:

Paul B. · 8th April 2022, 02:19 PM

Could it be a sepang blade missing the ganja?

Gustav · 8th April 2022, 02:42 PM

And two from Groneman, one more refined:

Athanase · 8th April 2022, 04:11 PM

The selut is in silver, not brass plated.

Yes I think that a Sepang Keris blade without ganja is the most likely.
The warangka was made after the loss of the ganja.
The thin coper pendok and the good quality of wood make me think that the set was assembled during the first half of the 20th century, but not later (But it's a feeling, not a certainty).

In any case, as Allan said, even if this "Keris" does not respect the Javanese rules, it is not an object for tourists.

8th April 2022, 10:23 AM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Alan, this type of Selut was common in Jogja already around 1900 and most probably at least 20 years earlier. It is depicted in Groneman's plates on some of Karyodikromo's Keris, he calls the motif on this Traptrapan Selut Untuq-Untuq. The Selut of Athanase seems to be lower in quality, because the upper rim is straight, but low quality in silver is perhaps a bit unusual. Last edited by Gustav; 8th April 2022 at 10:59 AM.

8th April 2022, 12:52 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	As I said Gustav, I have never seen an old one. You have apparently seen some photos of older ones. Can you tell me where the photos depicting these older examples might be found? Thank you. The fact that the upper rim of this selut is straight has nothing at all to do with quality. This hilt must use a selut with a straight upper rim, a scalloped rim used with this hilt would destroy the harmony of the figural carving & in Javanese eyes would be seen as totally out of place. The scalloped rim that we so often see on planar hilts is a convention used in order to accommodate & emphasise the planes of the hilt. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 8th April 2022 at 01:05 PM.

8th April 2022, 01:17 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Alan, exactly, that would include the possibility that the Selut was made to accomodate the figurine turned into hilt. Regarding more recent Selut, I have seen by far more ones with stright upper rim mated to planar hilts, and this is, what I would call lower quality. If you have van Duuren's edition of Gronemans articles, photographs of Keris with such Selut can be found on pages 267, 264, possibly of higher quality 251. I own two Keris with such Selut, both came to Europe before WWI. Last edited by Gustav; 8th April 2022 at 01:49 PM.

8th April 2022, 01:45 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	One of them: Attached Images

8th April 2022, 02:42 PM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	And two from Groneman, one more refined: Attached Images

8th April 2022, 02:19 PM	#5
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Could it be a sepang blade missing the ganja?

8th April 2022, 04:11 PM	#7
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 417	The selut is in silver, not brass plated. Yes I think that a Sepang Keris blade without ganja is the most likely. The warangka was made after the loss of the ganja. The thin coper pendok and the good quality of wood make me think that the set was assembled during the first half of the 20th century, but not later (But it's a feeling, not a certainty). In any case, as Allan said, even if this "Keris" does not respect the Javanese rules, it is not an object for tourists.