Shamshir hilts

dakary · 18th March 2022, 05:49 PM

That's not at all what I want. I want a modern replica that is as historically accurate as possible (I know that this forum has a lot of antique collectors, which is deeply interesting, but that's not what I am looking for either). This is of paramount importance to me. I've found it easier to accomplish this with European arms. I've bought pieces from, for example, Albion, and Tod Cutler (and ordered from Tod's workshop too).

I'm having a hell of a time trying to find the equivalent for eastern medieval arms. I tend to wallow in about 1450-1520AD when it comes to European stuff (and, in particular, German) and I'd like a contemporary from the Mamluk Sultanate or, perhaps, the wider Abbasid Caliphate. I've had Peserey Handicrafts recommended to me (there is a language barrier here too). But one thing about, for example, Tod's workshop is that he knows the 15th century German stuff so well and he can offer advice based on what I want and I trust him to deliver on craftsmanship and detail to historical accuracy.

I'm also starting this from a position of relative ignorance (not that I am an expert on the German stuff - I certainly am not, but I have a greater basis of information as a starting point). I've got a shortlist of some books and I will try to add those you've recommended to me, ariel. Still, I'd also like to absorb as much information from forum members as I can, if they're willing to help me. Thank you!

ariel · 18th March 2022, 08:01 PM

Sorry if I gave an impression to judge your collecting criteria; that was not my intention. There are as many collections as there are collectors. We all have different goals and criteria and they are legitimate personal choices.
I too would be interested what the other Forumites say.

dakary · 18th March 2022, 10:12 PM

Thanks Ariel. You did not give that impression at all! I just figured that there is no sense in being cryptic. If I am detailed about what I am looking for, I'm hoping that I will get better (as in pertinent) responses.

I'm wondering if for eastern arms replicas I need to be less picky and instead of trying to get Hamit to customize something, just get one of his normal offerings, which I am sure are well researched and accurate, and not worry if it is in my favored time period. He has an "early hilt" version of his kilij which is nice, for example. I also like his standard shamshir on its own merits. I'd just really highly prefer something 15th-16th century and within the Abbasid Caliphate/Mamluk Sultanate...

Yes, it would be nice to hear from others but I get the impression I am a few years too late...it seems like all arms and armour forums used to be more lively than they are now.

Nihl · 23rd March 2022, 08:55 PM

Hi dakary! Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but unfortunately the truth is the "eastern world" really hasn't caught up with the west in terms of available-to-order-online sword production. The fact of the matter is modern sword "pop culture" if you will is way too eurocentric at the moment, so there frankly isn't much demand from most online peoples for "eastern" swords. This, of course, mostly just applies to western, middle eastern, and south asian swords though; it goes without saying there's been east asian sword representation on the market for decades. Even southeast asia has quite a bit of representation nowadays.

This is all to say that you are correct in your perception that you'd need to custom order a sword in order to get a faithful replica. There simply are no "albion's" or "tod culter's" for the islamic world, ready to make 100% historically accurate, battle ready replicas for willing customers - with customization options available! If anything you'd be better off learning smithing yourself and making your own replicas (that's honestly what I'm planning on doing once I'm out of university). I apologize if that all sounds overly snarky, but it really is the truth. There is peserey handicrafts, like you mentioned, and also another swordsmith from Turkey that goes by "kilic_osman_baskurt" on instagram, who is very well known for making high quality replicas, often out of wootz steel. Beyond them, however, I really don't know who I'd go to.

A.alnakkas · 24th March 2022, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihl

Hi dakary! Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but unfortunately the truth is the "eastern world" really hasn't caught up with the west in terms of available-to-order-online sword production. The fact of the matter is modern sword "pop culture" if you will is way too eurocentric at the moment, so there frankly isn't much demand from most online peoples for "eastern" swords. This, of course, mostly just applies to western, middle eastern, and south asian swords though; it goes without saying there's been east asian sword representation on the market for decades. Even southeast asia has quite a bit of representation nowadays.

This is all to say that you are correct in your perception that you'd need to custom order a sword in order to get a faithful replica. There simply are no "albion's" or "tod culter's" for the islamic world, ready to make 100% historically accurate, battle ready replicas for willing customers - with customization options available! If anything you'd be better off learning smithing yourself and making your own replicas (that's honestly what I'm planning on doing once I'm out of university). I apologize if that all sounds overly snarky, but it really is the truth. There is peserey handicrafts, like you mentioned, and also another swordsmith from Turkey that goes by "kilic_osman_baskurt" on instagram, who is very well known for making high quality replicas, often out of wootz steel. Beyond them, however, I really don't know who I'd go to.

Osman is a very skilled smith and I totally recommend working with him. He also sticks to accurate period designs and dimensions. I’ve handled and owned multiple pieces of his productions and he is quite competent.

As for the rest of the post. The sword culture is certainly alive and well within certain regions of the east. There are even ready to order items but what fits with the taste of “easterners” who in general have a form of celebratory angle to the ownership of swords and daggers. There are modern made swords in Oman that mimic the early Yamani sword. It is very much a classical design similar to what medieval Muslims used. Sadly, like European markets said swords are antiqued and sold to buyers as authentic items.

Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, Syria and more recently the UAE al produce modern items of with old specifications based on the demand of 99.999999% of their customers. Some of their productions are of very high quality.

I’ve commissioned various swords in Doha, mainly in the more recent Arab design. They are quite accurate in shape and construction. A fellow in Doha replicated a Persian sword and it was quite well made too. I guess if one wants to know what “easterners” make, they should make the effort to find them.

dakary · 24th March 2022, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihl

I apologize if that all sounds overly snarky, but it really is the truth.

Not at all. You've confirmed what I suspected. I seems like peserey handicrafts might be the way to go. I'll also check out Osman and think about it.

A.alnakkas' post is really intriguing to me. Especially the part about commissioning swords in Doha. That's where I used to live (and might again someday, but it doesn't look like it at the moment). I agree about the swords for celebration. They are everywhere and not at all what I am looking for. Do you have a lead for me? I I would be so grateful. When I was in Doha I tried to find some leads and only one looked promising but it never worked out - mainly because I couldn't ever find opening hours (and I went a few different times at different times/days to see). It was a place just south in Al Wakrah.

A.alnakkas · 27th March 2022, 11:05 AM

Many of them use social media. Instagram has multiple accounts. Check:

@Sword_Ghaith

@Sword_qatar

@albidaa

Farres Ahmed Bader I believe still takes projects. So do various other makers in Bahrain such as Shakir alSayigh will be able to help out. Make the design, provide the blade if you want, they can make anything.

They can even provide blades, including high quality antiques. They wont be cheap.

18th March 2022, 05:49 PM	#1
dakary Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Canada Posts: 26	That's not at all what I want. I want a modern replica that is as historically accurate as possible (I know that this forum has a lot of antique collectors, which is deeply interesting, but that's not what I am looking for either). This is of paramount importance to me. I've found it easier to accomplish this with European arms. I've bought pieces from, for example, Albion, and Tod Cutler (and ordered from Tod's workshop too). I'm having a hell of a time trying to find the equivalent for eastern medieval arms. I tend to wallow in about 1450-1520AD when it comes to European stuff (and, in particular, German) and I'd like a contemporary from the Mamluk Sultanate or, perhaps, the wider Abbasid Caliphate. I've had Peserey Handicrafts recommended to me (there is a language barrier here too). But one thing about, for example, Tod's workshop is that he knows the 15th century German stuff so well and he can offer advice based on what I want and I trust him to deliver on craftsmanship and detail to historical accuracy. I'm also starting this from a position of relative ignorance (not that I am an expert on the German stuff - I certainly am not, but I have a greater basis of information as a starting point). I've got a shortlist of some books and I will try to add those you've recommended to me, ariel. Still, I'd also like to absorb as much information from forum members as I can, if they're willing to help me. Thank you!

18th March 2022, 08:01 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry if I gave an impression to judge your collecting criteria; that was not my intention. There are as many collections as there are collectors. We all have different goals and criteria and they are legitimate personal choices. I too would be interested what the other Forumites say.

18th March 2022, 10:12 PM	#3
dakary Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Canada Posts: 26	Thanks Ariel. You did not give that impression at all! I just figured that there is no sense in being cryptic. If I am detailed about what I am looking for, I'm hoping that I will get better (as in pertinent) responses. I'm wondering if for eastern arms replicas I need to be less picky and instead of trying to get Hamit to customize something, just get one of his normal offerings, which I am sure are well researched and accurate, and not worry if it is in my favored time period. He has an "early hilt" version of his kilij which is nice, for example. I also like his standard shamshir on its own merits. I'd just really highly prefer something 15th-16th century and within the Abbasid Caliphate/Mamluk Sultanate... Yes, it would be nice to hear from others but I get the impression I am a few years too late...it seems like all arms and armour forums used to be more lively than they are now.

23rd March 2022, 08:55 PM	#4
Nihl Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 90	Hi dakary! Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but unfortunately the truth is the "eastern world" really hasn't caught up with the west in terms of available-to-order-online sword production. The fact of the matter is modern sword "pop culture" if you will is way too eurocentric at the moment, so there frankly isn't much demand from most online peoples for "eastern" swords. This, of course, mostly just applies to western, middle eastern, and south asian swords though; it goes without saying there's been east asian sword representation on the market for decades. Even southeast asia has quite a bit of representation nowadays. This is all to say that you are correct in your perception that you'd need to custom order a sword in order to get a faithful replica. There simply are no "albion's" or "tod culter's" for the islamic world, ready to make 100% historically accurate, battle ready replicas for willing customers - with customization options available! If anything you'd be better off learning smithing yourself and making your own replicas (that's honestly what I'm planning on doing once I'm out of university). I apologize if that all sounds overly snarky, but it really is the truth. There is peserey handicrafts, like you mentioned, and also another swordsmith from Turkey that goes by "kilic_osman_baskurt" on instagram, who is very well known for making high quality replicas, often out of wootz steel. Beyond them, however, I really don't know who I'd go to.

27th March 2022, 11:05 AM	#7
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Many of them use social media. Instagram has multiple accounts. Check: @Sword_Ghaith @Sword_qatar @albidaa Farres Ahmed Bader I believe still takes projects. So do various other makers in Bahrain such as Shakir alSayigh will be able to help out. Make the design, provide the blade if you want, they can make anything. They can even provide blades, including high quality antiques. They wont be cheap.