Indonesian? Short Sword for Comment

RobT · 9th March 2022, 02:07 AM

naturalist,

Given the shape on the bottom of the pommel of my hilt, your ID of ceker kidang is tempting but there is one thing that must be noted. There a good many online examples of swords with ceker kidang hilts and, in virtually every example, the back of the hilt curves smoothly down to the pommel. The only exceptions I could find were newly made (very late 20th to 21st century). While my hilt may not be original to the blade, it does have some age and those less traditionally shaped new hilts don't look like mine either. It must be asked then, why would someone making a replacement handle for himself go against a culturally accepted norm? Especially since the traditional shape would be easier to make.

Sincerely,
RobT

A. G. Maisey · 9th March 2022, 07:06 AM

I guess if this pedang were Sundanese, rather than Javanese , we could perhaps call the hilt a ceker kidang style, but I don't think this name is used in Jawa, at least I've never heard it used in Central Jawa, and in Javanese the combination of "ceker" --- a claw, a chicken leg, a hand --- together with "kidang" --- a small deer --- sounds pretty peculiar.

It sounds queer to me, but I'm not a native speaker of Javanese, so I ran it past a couple of native speakers of Javanese, and it didn't wash with them either.

In Sundanese "ceker" means the foot of a little animal, and in Indonesian it can mean either "foot" or "claw".

I feel that perhaps the name "ceker kidang" might be Jakarta in origin.

naturalist · 8th June 2022, 03:33 AM

Most of my office mates are Sundanese, since my office is in Bogor, West Java. I took this opportunity to ask them what is "Ceker". For them, ceker is referring to chicken feet (all are younger than me, i don't know how deep they are into their culture). However, i found that in some parts of Betawi communities around Jakarta Province (Betawi who are living in West Java, but close to Jakarta), ceker also has meaning as the feet of ungulate.
In Javanese, the verb form of ceker is ceceker it means looking for food (as the chicken do to look for something on the ground using their feet or what we are doing for living-connotation). Javanese also use cekeran/nyeker to describe a situation when we (humans) are in bare naked feet. We (Javanese) do have a rude form of it, it is "cokoran/nyokor". So, as in some communities in West Java that are using ceker not only for chicken leg, Javanese also use ceker in a broad meaning.
I did pass the pictures above to my colleagues, all said the handle is "ceker kidang".

Anton

Interested Party · 8th June 2022, 04:37 PM

It does look like the profile of a deer's foot.

9th March 2022, 02:07 AM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 533	Rojomolo vs Ceker Kidang naturalist, Given the shape on the bottom of the pommel of my hilt, your ID of ceker kidang is tempting but there is one thing that must be noted. There a good many online examples of swords with ceker kidang hilts and, in virtually every example, the back of the hilt curves smoothly down to the pommel. The only exceptions I could find were newly made (very late 20th to 21st century). While my hilt may not be original to the blade, it does have some age and those less traditionally shaped new hilts don't look like mine either. It must be asked then, why would someone making a replacement handle for himself go against a culturally accepted norm? Especially since the traditional shape would be easier to make. Sincerely, RobT

8th June 2022, 03:33 AM	#3
naturalist Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 64	Ceker kidang Most of my office mates are Sundanese, since my office is in Bogor, West Java. I took this opportunity to ask them what is "Ceker". For them, ceker is referring to chicken feet (all are younger than me, i don't know how deep they are into their culture). However, i found that in some parts of Betawi communities around Jakarta Province (Betawi who are living in West Java, but close to Jakarta), ceker also has meaning as the feet of ungulate. In Javanese, the verb form of ceker is ceceker it means looking for food (as the chicken do to look for something on the ground using their feet or what we are doing for living-connotation). Javanese also use cekeran/nyeker to describe a situation when we (humans) are in bare naked feet. We (Javanese) do have a rude form of it, it is "cokoran/nyokor". So, as in some communities in West Java that are using ceker not only for chicken leg, Javanese also use ceker in a broad meaning. I did pass the pictures above to my colleagues, all said the handle is "ceker kidang". Anton

9th March 2022, 07:06 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	I guess if this pedang were Sundanese, rather than Javanese , we could perhaps call the hilt a ceker kidang style, but I don't think this name is used in Jawa, at least I've never heard it used in Central Jawa, and in Javanese the combination of "ceker" --- a claw, a chicken leg, a hand --- together with "kidang" --- a small deer --- sounds pretty peculiar. It sounds queer to me, but I'm not a native speaker of Javanese, so I ran it past a couple of native speakers of Javanese, and it didn't wash with them either. In Sundanese "ceker" means the foot of a little animal, and in Indonesian it can mean either "foot" or "claw". I feel that perhaps the name "ceker kidang" might be Jakarta in origin.

8th June 2022, 04:37 PM	#4
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 491	It does look like the profile of a deer's foot.