19c Sudanese Sabre?

fernando · 5th March 2022, 03:09 PM

Waiting for better photos of the lettering in the blade, when it arrives

kronckew · 5th March 2022, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Waiting for better photos of the lettering in the blade, when it arrives

Wilco.

Looks like it may need a bit of cleaning too. Will use my HDR camera & try for better side lighting to contrast the letters.

Edster · 5th March 2022, 08:32 PM

The last pic has a stamp that looks like an Ethiopian lion, and the lettering in the fuller looks like what has been IDed on other threads as Ethiopian. Could be an Eritrean/Beni Amer adapted Ethiopian military sword.

Ed

kronckew · 5th March 2022, 09:12 PM

Thanks Ed, that confirms my suspicions, and pins down the area better.

ariel · 7th March 2022, 02:37 AM

This is an improvised saber of a respectable age and unquestionably suited for a practical battle use.
When the blade is cleaned we shall be better informed about its origin. Even then we may not know whether it is , say, Ugandan. Somali, Ethiopian , Sudanese etc.
And this is my only hesitation about its value as a legitimate example of a certain tradition. Meanwile it is an unquestionably usable object coming somewhere from a multitude of potential village smithies all along Eastern Africa. It is a legitimate usable weapon, but its historical value is negligible. Currently it is a mix-and-match production the origin and the usage of which are unlikely be ever revealed. Charming, but not of a scientific value.

Jim McDougall · 7th March 2022, 06:47 AM

Really interesting Wayne!!
It is not unusual to see western influences in latter 19th c. African swords, and this looks like a village blacksmith rendition of a stirrup hilt.
The scabbard looks remarkably Sudanese (the shoulder strap etc.) but I totally agree with Ed, the stamped markings on the blade are seen on some apparent Ethiopian examples of kaskara, and as noted the kaskara was found in Eritrea as well.

I have seen kaskara with this kind of centrally placed linear script which appears to be Amharic, and the lion placed in that configuration similar to Ethiopian blades which also have a human head. These are thought to be perhaps commemorating the death of the Ethiopian Emperor Yohannes IV who was killed at Battle of Gallabat Mar. 9-10, 1889.
This was end of conflict between Mahdist forces and Ethiopian, with Yohannis killed and beheaded, thus the supposition of the head on the blade with this type script and the lion. (pic attached of Yohannis IV in 1884).

The blade is rough but of course recalls the shotel blades of the well known gurade sabers which of course, as with the hilt style,were of European style.

Most likely a saber of Ethiopian border regions of this latter 19th c. period, and with a great deal of historical possibility with these points considered regardless if this must remain speculative.

Ariel, I took the liberty of posting this kaskara you posted in Aug. 2015 which had similar motif, and was regarded as likely an Ethiopian straight blade possibly commemorating this battle.

kronckew · 7th March 2022, 09:16 AM

Thanks, Jim. I would think it is of Historical value, if not 'Scientific'. Just knowing these were in use in the period is of historic importance. A titbit, not a full meal, but tasty in any case.

7th March 2022, 06:47 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Really interesting Wayne!! It is not unusual to see western influences in latter 19th c. African swords, and this looks like a village blacksmith rendition of a stirrup hilt. The scabbard looks remarkably Sudanese (the shoulder strap etc.) but I totally agree with Ed, the stamped markings on the blade are seen on some apparent Ethiopian examples of kaskara, and as noted the kaskara was found in Eritrea as well. I have seen kaskara with this kind of centrally placed linear script which appears to be Amharic, and the lion placed in that configuration similar to Ethiopian blades which also have a human head. These are thought to be perhaps commemorating the death of the Ethiopian Emperor Yohannes IV who was killed at Battle of Gallabat Mar. 9-10, 1889. This was end of conflict between Mahdist forces and Ethiopian, with Yohannis killed and beheaded, thus the supposition of the head on the blade with this type script and the lion. (pic attached of Yohannis IV in 1884). The blade is rough but of course recalls the shotel blades of the well known gurade sabers which of course, as with the hilt style,were of European style. Most likely a saber of Ethiopian border regions of this latter 19th c. period, and with a great deal of historical possibility with these points considered regardless if this must remain speculative. Ariel, I took the liberty of posting this kaskara you posted in Aug. 2015 which had similar motif, and was regarded as likely an Ethiopian straight blade possibly commemorating this battle. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 7th March 2022 at 09:21 PM.

5th March 2022, 03:09 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Waiting for better photos of the lettering in the blade, when it arrives

5th March 2022, 08:32 PM	#3
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 415	The last pic has a stamp that looks like an Ethiopian lion, and the lettering in the fuller looks like what has been IDed on other threads as Ethiopian. Could be an Eritrean/Beni Amer adapted Ethiopian military sword. Ed

5th March 2022, 09:12 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	Thanks Ed, that confirms my suspicions, and pins down the area better.

7th March 2022, 02:37 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	This is an improvised saber of a respectable age and unquestionably suited for a practical battle use. When the blade is cleaned we shall be better informed about its origin. Even then we may not know whether it is , say, Ugandan. Somali, Ethiopian , Sudanese etc. And this is my only hesitation about its value as a legitimate example of a certain tradition. Meanwile it is an unquestionably usable object coming somewhere from a multitude of potential village smithies all along Eastern Africa. It is a legitimate usable weapon, but its historical value is negligible. Currently it is a mix-and-match production the origin and the usage of which are unlikely be ever revealed. Charming, but not of a scientific value.

7th March 2022, 09:16 AM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	Thanks, Jim. I would think it is of Historical value, if not 'Scientific'. Just knowing these were in use in the period is of historic importance. A titbit, not a full meal, but tasty in any case.