Aceh Kris for comment

[Cerjak]

blade pictures

[Cerjak]

Hello Kai and Sajen
I hope these pictures can help identify the blade.
I will also clean the handle and scabbard according to your advice.
Best
CERJAK

[Jean]

The blade looks old (19th century or earlier), it is very worn out at the wadidang (lower back) side, the pamor is sanak (indistinct), and the blade does not match well with the Bugis style scabbard but it could be an old combination
(check for recent carving inside the scabbard slot). The carved hilt seems in rekko style from South Sulawesi.

[Gustav]

The blade with some certainty is older then 19th cent., it originally comes from different Keris culture, as the other forumites observed, but the sheath was obviously made for this blade and have been together for a quite long time (the same perhaps could be true for the ferrule).

I would be cautios to overclean the sheath (and to some extent the hilt), as you will end with a completely different appearance and much bigger contrast of wood and metal parts. I sometimes would let a piece almost as it is, and for me this would be such a piece.

[Paul B.]

Fully agree with Gustav. You would ruin the old patina if you overdo the cleaning. The blade looks better now.
Could you show us the complete sheath frontally in combination with the unsheated blade?

[Cerjak]

Dear Gustav and Jean
Thank you for your interesting comments, examining the slot of the KRIS scabbard I can see that it fits the shape of the ganja perfectly and shows no trace of recent carving. I can safely assume that this scabbard was made especially for this blade, certainly to replace the previous one.
I would like to know what are the characteristics of this blade that allow to date it from the 18th century.
Best Regards
Cerjak

[Gustav]

Cerjak, there is very little left of any features of the blade, which would allow to place it in time, it is in relic condition, the surface is treated in a way, which don't give a possibility to appreciate or say something about the iron or Pamor, if there was any or still would be any traces of it preserved. Perhaps at some point in its history the surface rust was removed manually.

But that what is left - the outline of Sogokan, how it curves at the Gonjo towards Kepet Urang, the sharpness of these outlines, the central ridge (Odo-Odo and Janur), the clean Gusen, where it is preserved, the shape of Luk and the Kruwingan going to the ninth Luk - says, it was a good quality blade, and it is or it is made to resemble blades, which originated around 16th cent.

I cannot be certain it really comes from 16th or 17th cent., but I am quite sure it is pre-1800.

[David]

Originally Posted by Gustav

I would be cautios to overclean the sheath (and to some extent the hilt), as you will end with a completely different appearance and much bigger contrast of wood and metal parts. I sometimes would let a piece almost as it is, and for me this would be such a piece.

I agree this shouldn't be over cleaned, but if it were mine i would still clean it up a bit. Dirt should not be confused with patina and both the sheath and hilt are dirty. Clean and oil them carefully and they will look much better without losing the patina. I'd use a soft toothbrush and oil to clean up the hilt.
Warangan may or may not revel much pamor. Would be inclined to leave it as is.
What has been described as a selut here looks more like an oversized mendak to me. If i were to change anything about this keris it might be to find a more appropriate pendokok. This piece, while interesting, just looks a bit awkward.
I agree with Gustav. This was a well made keris and is probably 18th century.

[Sajen]

I agree with David, I've not written that the scabbard should get overcleaned but I see a lot of small scratches and a lot of dirt on the scabbard, this is not patination!

[Cerjak]

I think everything has been said about this kris and the information gathered far exceeds my expectations.
I also realise that the study of kris requires extensive knowledge and therefore years of passion and research. The answers I got showed me that there are real experts in this forum who were kind enough to spend time answering a neophite.
So thank you all!
Best Cerjak

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I agree with David, I've not written that the scabbard should get overcleaned but I see a lot of small scratches and a lot of dirt on the scabbard, this is not patination!

Detlef, this is how it would happen with me :

I want to get rid of the obvious black patches of dirt on wooden parts. I do it. Then the now much more obvious dirt on metal parts starts to annoy me. I try to find a new balance of still left patination on wood and metal parts... and so on. I would surely end up with something, which would look and feel artificial to me, because I have a memory of the piece how it looked before cleaning...

But I surely am much less experienced and less skilled then you in this.