1822 British Lancer Mameluke

Calien · 7th February 2022, 12:09 AM

I got a lot of info from a friend on Facebook, he runs Natural Acuity and has a ton of resources for British makers.

Radboud · 7th February 2022, 12:21 AM

Steve Langham’s database is an invaluable resource and can be found here:

https://naturalacuity.com/SwordSearc...d-02f606c626ed

If you click on the i button it brings you to the sources Steve has for his entry One observation though, Steve only lists dates he has a period source for, so in this instance, if T Symmons was using blades supplied by J J Runkel then he must have been operating before 1808 when Runkel ceased importing from Solingen.

Bryce · 7th February 2022, 02:56 AM

Thanks guys,
He isn't in the 1814 London PO Directory or the 1816 PO Directory. It suggests he may only have been in business between October 1814 and October 1815. I wonder where the comment about Runkel blades came from?
Is there anything distinguishing in the blade decoration or is it just generic?
Cheers,
Bryce

Calien · 7th February 2022, 03:20 AM

No nothing, lots of foliage but not even the GR on it. Pretty unique in that sense I'm guessing because he was French? Also yes Steve is doing a really amazing job with his database, I promised him I would write up an article about this sword but my writing skills suck as you can see lol.

JT88 · 7th February 2022, 07:41 PM

Well I got an expert opinion and they said: “It is of the earlier form of c. 1805 period, but likely 1810-20. Without the regimental devices in motif it is hard to say, but the motif in your fittings resembles one from the 9th Lancers.”

I think this is as far as deduction can carry us on this Mameluke. The blade may have been acquired during the second Egypt expedition in 1811. The British did loot a lot of blades then, then put together back in England. As for the scabbard motifs, if they are ONLY found on lancer blades. I think it can be assumed this was a lancer’s, though of which unit I’ll never know. Glad to have stirred some healthy discussion here. Calien has many beautiful Mamelukes. I’d be happy to post my Pala here but there isn’t anything to learn on that one.

Bryce · 8th February 2022, 02:57 AM

G'day JT88,
The 11th Hussars also had similar motifs on their scabbard bands and cross guards. I think you can call it "in the style favoured by light cavalry officers", but you can't narrow it down to just Lancers.
Cheers,
Bryce

JT88 · 8th February 2022, 09:59 AM

Where do you see the 11th Hussar example?

7th February 2022, 12:09 AM	#1
Calien Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 38	I got a lot of info from a friend on Facebook, he runs Natural Acuity and has a ton of resources for British makers. Attached Images Last edited by Calien; 7th February 2022 at 03:19 AM.

7th February 2022, 12:21 AM	#2
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 285	Steve Langham’s database is an invaluable resource and can be found here: https://naturalacuity.com/SwordSearc...d-02f606c626ed If you click on the i button it brings you to the sources Steve has for his entry One observation though, Steve only lists dates he has a period source for, so in this instance, if T Symmons was using blades supplied by J J Runkel then he must have been operating before 1808 when Runkel ceased importing from Solingen. Attached Images

7th February 2022, 02:56 AM	#3
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 189	Thanks guys, He isn't in the 1814 London PO Directory or the 1816 PO Directory. It suggests he may only have been in business between October 1814 and October 1815. I wonder where the comment about Runkel blades came from? Is there anything distinguishing in the blade decoration or is it just generic? Cheers, Bryce

7th February 2022, 03:20 AM	#4
Calien Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 38	No nothing, lots of foliage but not even the GR on it. Pretty unique in that sense I'm guessing because he was French? Also yes Steve is doing a really amazing job with his database, I promised him I would write up an article about this sword but my writing skills suck as you can see lol.

7th February 2022, 07:41 PM	#5
JT88 Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 52	Well I got an expert opinion and they said: “It is of the earlier form of c. 1805 period, but likely 1810-20. Without the regimental devices in motif it is hard to say, but the motif in your fittings resembles one from the 9th Lancers.” I think this is as far as deduction can carry us on this Mameluke. The blade may have been acquired during the second Egypt expedition in 1811. The British did loot a lot of blades then, then put together back in England. As for the scabbard motifs, if they are ONLY found on lancer blades. I think it can be assumed this was a lancer’s, though of which unit I’ll never know. Glad to have stirred some healthy discussion here. Calien has many beautiful Mamelukes. I’d be happy to post my Pala here but there isn’t anything to learn on that one.

8th February 2022, 02:57 AM	#6
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 189	G'day JT88, The 11th Hussars also had similar motifs on their scabbard bands and cross guards. I think you can call it "in the style favoured by light cavalry officers", but you can't narrow it down to just Lancers. Cheers, Bryce

8th February 2022, 09:59 AM	#7
JT88 Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 52	Where do you see the 11th Hussar example?