Arabic....North African curved dagger...comments / help

Emanuel · 8th June 2006, 06:01 PM

Hello katana,

I'm still unsure whether my variant is made for Those Who Travel For Pleasure or not. It has a thin 2mm blade, crude engravings and the scabbard and hilt only have brass inlay, not carving like yours. I had the impression that these are indeed Moroccan and that they have a ceremonial function -hence the name Wedding Nimcha. To me they look like a non-weapon derivative of the shula.

Emanuel

ariel · 8th June 2006, 06:56 PM

I agree with Rick: this is a North African bazaar version of Nimcha (or Zeus only knows what they call it). It is aimed at the tourist market, although I've been told that similar creations were used at wedding ceremonies, as part of the costume.
As far as I know, they have no utilitarian or military purpose and it is reflected in the quality of their blades.

ErnestoJuan · 8th June 2006, 08:39 PM

According to Tirri (page 44) , these daggers originate from Algiers.

katana · 8th June 2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErnestoJuan

According to Tirri (page 44) , these daggers originate from Algiers.

So is there the possibility that this is not a tourist ( or TWTFP, thanks Manolo for the clue in your post

) dagger. ?
ErnestoJuan, could you please post any other information you may have, thankyou

ErnestoJuan · 8th June 2006, 09:41 PM

Well, the grand master of all oriental arms describes a similar item as:

" A very decorative presentation “NIMCHA” knife / dagger from Algier. It has a 16 inches single edge blade of deep curvature. The blade is engraved in a typical design, inlaid with brass and filed on the spine. The hilt and the scabbard are made of wood and entirely carved in a typica; Algerian design. Total length 25 ½ inches. Very good condition. It is not a fighting weapon but a very decorative example and of good workmanship. It is a nice addition to a collection of Oriental Weapon / art, at a very attractive price."

here is the url for piccies:

http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=1506

katana · 8th June 2006, 10:07 PM

Other than the longer blade, they are indeed very similar, thankyou for the link

ErnestoJuan · 8th June 2006, 10:27 PM

My pleasure.

ariel · 9th June 2006, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErnestoJuan

Well, the grand master of all oriental arms describes a similar item as:

" A very decorative presentation “NIMCHA” knife / dagger from Algier. It has a 16 inches single edge blade of deep curvature. The blade is engraved in a typical design, inlaid with brass and filed on the spine. The hilt and the scabbard are made of wood and entirely carved in a typica; Algerian design. Total length 25 ½ inches. Very good condition. It is not a fighting weapon but a very decorative example and of good workmanship. It is a nice addition to a collection of Oriental Weapon / art, at a very attractive price."

here is the url for piccies:

http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=1506

This one has a blade that is very much "flyssa"-like. Algiers comes to mind right away.

katana · 9th June 2006, 05:12 PM

I've been send further photos by the seller, I've tried to make them large enough so that the detail is easier to see, perhaps these could help to decide whether this is a tourist piece or something a little better

.
Opinions gentlemen please........ thanks

ErnestoJuan · 8th June 2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Hello katana,

I'm still unsure whether my variant is made for Those Who Travel For Pleasure or not. It has a thin 2mm blade, crude engravings and the scabbard and hilt only have brass inlay, not carving like yours. I had the impression that these are indeed Moroccan and that they have a ceremonial function -hence the name Wedding Nimcha. To me they look like a non-weapon derivative of the shula.

Emanuel

I think I know what you mean. However, the 20th century variant of the shula really does not look like these so called " ceremonial nimcha's " .

Like I said in my previous post; according to Tirri these ceremonial items come from Algiers. On the other hand, many describe these items as " ceremonial nimchas' " thus originating from Morocco.

just my 2 euro cents.

In the very near future I woll post pictures of my collection of koummya's, shula's and related items.

Hager · 15th January 2008, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Hello katana,

I'm still unsure whether my variant is made for Those Who Travel For Pleasure or not. It has a thin 2mm blade, crude engravings and the scabbard and hilt only have brass inlay, not carving like yours. I had the impression that these are indeed Moroccan and that they have a ceremonial function -hence the name Wedding Nimcha. To me they look like a non-weapon derivative of the shula.

Emanuel

Hello ,
I was hoping someone in the know might help me . I just received a matched pair of the blades and scabbards identical to the one Manola illustraited in his post . They were given to me by my mother and I remember them in our house in the 1950's . She thinks the date from early 1900's but really doesn't know for sure . Was wondering if anyone ever got a definative answer as to their history and what would their value be ? Don't intend to sell them , just curious as to what I have here ?Any thoughts would be appreciated .Thanks.

Hager .

katana · 18th January 2008, 08:09 PM

Hello Hagar,
welcome to the forum....

Manolo posted two different types, which one are you refering to.

Regards David

.

spiral · 18th January 2008, 09:39 PM

Presumably real blades are spring temperd, show & tourist blades may or may not be.

Guess one can always hang up half a pig & stab away & see whether blade & tang stands the reality of serious reapted use or not ...

Spiral

Emanuel · 18th January 2008, 10:40 PM

Hello Hager,

It seems that WWII is a fair date for these "wedding nimcha" (Katana's and my first posts). It's likely based on the tourist flyssas and the second knife, the shula, which I believe to be a late-19th century type.
I got my nimcha for 50USD in 2005 and that was overpaying. I've seen them go on eBay for much less, and at times for much much more. I do not think they are worth more than 20USD in the west, and they're probably 5USD in the suks and bazzars of Morocco. Sorry it's just not a valuable knife, although it's a pretty-looking souvenir and may obviously have sentimental value.

I agree with what Spiral said, but I suggest you do not try cutting with these knives.

Regards,
Emanuel

8th June 2006, 06:01 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Got one too :) Hello katana, I'm still unsure whether my variant is made for Those Who Travel For Pleasure or not. It has a thin 2mm blade, crude engravings and the scabbard and hilt only have brass inlay, not carving like yours. I had the impression that these are indeed Moroccan and that they have a ceremonial function -hence the name Wedding Nimcha. To me they look like a non-weapon derivative of the shula. Emanuel Attached Images

9th June 2006, 05:12 PM	#9
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I've been send further photos by the seller, I've tried to make them large enough so that the detail is easier to see, perhaps these could help to decide whether this is a tourist piece or something a little better . Opinions gentlemen please........ thanks Attached Images Last edited by katana; 9th June 2006 at 05:27 PM.

18th January 2008, 08:09 PM	#12
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hello Hagar, welcome to the forum.... Manolo posted two different types, which one are you refering to. Regards David . Attached Images

8th June 2006, 06:56 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I agree with Rick: this is a North African bazaar version of Nimcha (or Zeus only knows what they call it). It is aimed at the tourist market, although I've been told that similar creations were used at wedding ceremonies, as part of the costume. As far as I know, they have no utilitarian or military purpose and it is reflected in the quality of their blades.

8th June 2006, 08:39 PM	#3
ErnestoJuan Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europa Posts: 60	According to Tirri (page 44) , these daggers originate from Algiers.

8th June 2006, 09:41 PM	#5
ErnestoJuan Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europa Posts: 60	Well, the grand master of all oriental arms describes a similar item as: " A very decorative presentation “NIMCHA” knife / dagger from Algier. It has a 16 inches single edge blade of deep curvature. The blade is engraved in a typical design, inlaid with brass and filed on the spine. The hilt and the scabbard are made of wood and entirely carved in a typica; Algerian design. Total length 25 ½ inches. Very good condition. It is not a fighting weapon but a very decorative example and of good workmanship. It is a nice addition to a collection of Oriental Weapon / art, at a very attractive price." here is the url for piccies: http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=1506

8th June 2006, 10:07 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Other than the longer blade, they are indeed very similar, thankyou for the link

8th June 2006, 10:27 PM	#7
ErnestoJuan Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europa Posts: 60	My pleasure.

18th January 2008, 09:39 PM	#13
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Presumably real blades are spring temperd, show & tourist blades may or may not be. Guess one can always hang up half a pig & stab away & see whether blade & tang stands the reality of serious reapted use or not ... Spiral

18th January 2008, 10:40 PM	#14
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello Hager, It seems that WWII is a fair date for these "wedding nimcha" (Katana's and my first posts). It's likely based on the tourist flyssas and the second knife, the shula, which I believe to be a late-19th century type. I got my nimcha for 50USD in 2005 and that was overpaying. I've seen them go on eBay for much less, and at times for much much more. I do not think they are worth more than 20USD in the west, and they're probably 5USD in the suks and bazzars of Morocco. Sorry it's just not a valuable knife, although it's a pretty-looking souvenir and may obviously have sentimental value. I agree with what Spiral said, but I suggest you do not try cutting with these knives. Regards, Emanuel