Keris pincit?

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In this Forum we have mostly stayed away from discussion of the esoteric elements associated with the keris. Understandable to some degree. There is a tremendous amount of nonsense that does get spread around, about keris, and there are numerous shysters out there, both with an online presence, and working face to face in the community. I know personally some of these people who are in Jawa, and really, I'd like to see most of them gone. They purport to sell things that in fact cannot be sold under any circumstances, and if payment does happen to be involved it should be done in the appropriate way, which is face to face.

At the moment these people only damage the image of the keris and detract from the real esoteric element that some keris might possess.

Thank you Alan for posting some good, solid responses to Jag's questions.
I just want to be clear, not only to you, but to all our members. As a moderator for this group i do not in any way want to discourage the discussion of the esoteric elements of the keris. It is in fact one of the reasons we separated keris discussion from the main Ethno Forum, so that we could explore aspects of keris culture that collectors of other ethnographic weapons were not quite able to put into context or wrap their heads around. I believe it is important that we do not push these subjects aside exactly because of what you state in your posts. It is important to at least try to sort the "shyster" spiel from more traditional esoteric elements of keris culture to attempt to head off the damage that can and has been done to the image of the keris.
This is not to say that there are not inherent difficulties to these types of discussion. I ask that people be respectful of the beliefs other may hold dear when we engage in these discussions and remember that the "understanding" of the keris may indeed be different for different people depending upon the sources used to form their beliefs. But we should also remember that all sources of information are not necessarily equal. As long as discussion remains friendly and civil i encourage more discussion on these esoteric subjects.

[A. G. Maisey]

Understood & agreed David.


EDIT


David, I wrote my initial response to your Post #8 as soon as I opened my computer for the day. First thing I did. Since then I've had breakfast, attended to a couple of business matters, checked out the weather and uttered a couple of prayers to the Controller of Weather in the hopes that the rain and cold weather will stop. January should be beach-time here in the Land of Oz, instead I'm wearing a tracksuit and woolen slippers. Not good.

And I've been thinking, thinking that I really should add a little tail to my agreement.

At the present time we can throw a few relevant search terms into Google and come up many sellers of keris. For example, my search term a few minutes ago was:-

"mystic powerful keris kris for sale"

I got 265,000 hits in less than half a second.

I scanned down the list of sellers, some I have known about for years, others seemed like new additions, one seller has a number of different sites with different presentations that all come back to the same person, who deals in talismanic items, all guaranteed to have been tested by a qualified mystic in Indonesia and to contain very powerful "servants" & occasionally a "genie".

These sellers also offer keris that are presented as being hundreds of years older than they truly are and with accompanying promises of powerful esoteric powers, all guaranteed & tested by Indonesian mystics & with certificates from famous museums. I will not mention the asking prices, but if you feel like a bit of light amusement these sites are easy enough to find, especially for people who live in the UK.

Many people who are outside the keris bearing societies of South East Asia do have some basic knowledge of the keris, and a percentage of these people also have an interest in the legendary mystical qualities of the keris.

Over the years I have had many people contact me with questions relating to the esoteric qualities of the keris, I have tried to assist as best I can, but sometimes some people would prefer to believe the snake oil salesmen. Because of this I am usually pretty hesitant with my responses to questions about the keris when those questions are related to the Hidden World.

I do not ever wish to insult, discourage or disappoint people. What I would like to be able to do is to encourage people to learn the reality of the spiritual nature of some keris.

But that cannot be done in isolation from a knowledge of the culture & society of the people who hold the keris as a central icon of their culture.

You cannot remove the keris from the place that gave it birth, and expect to understand it, any more than you can understand roses without an understanding of the soil and climate that permits them to grow.

These shysters who trade off the inadequate understanding of genuine people who have a genuine interest in keris, but who do not yet have a level of knowledge that is adequate to permit them to distinguish the false from the genuine, are a pox on the World of the Keris.

These liars and pretenders and shonks and shysters and snake oil salesmen are stealing something from innocent, trusting people, something that can be quite beautiful.

It is not the money that they steal that is important, this is totally unimportant, we can always replace money, what they are stealing is the possibility of an experience that can open a new and enhanced vision of the world around us.

The keris is a multi facetted object, and one of those facets is an opening to a world of magic that very few people truly experience.

As long as these lying wolves are out there selling their falsehoods and deceptions it can only damage something that many of us here hold dear.

[jagabuwana]

David - noted, and thank you for saying so. This forum is by far the most valuable resource online when it comes to the keris and it should continue to be enriched through discussing the more esoteric matters. There's only so much we can grasp, and those who know can only impart so much, but it's valuable nonetheless.

Difficulty and wading through the muck might be an unavoidable feature of this topic and so be it. We all play a role in ensuring that discussions are civil and with integrity or veracity, so that the standard of this forum is upheld.

Alan - Thanks for your very insightful answers to my questions thus far. As to your post above - hear hear! (or in the exotic language of our people - ken oath).