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Old 11th November 2021, 06:06 AM   #1
mariusgmioc
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Thank you Jim for this very interesting information!

The two "Scandinavian (?)" examples in the photo appear very similar with Fernando's sword indeed.
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Old 11th November 2021, 01:25 PM   #2
fernando
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Thanks much Jim, for all that material. Indded i have previously browsed duble headed eagle crests in heraldy, masonry and religion (papal) but, so far, i found no clue.
It is naturaly admittable that this specfic design was artist's initiative, but what went trough his mind to draw something so similar to something else?.
On the other hand, we can see that every detail was skilfully care of. I wouldn't know the name of the technique but i notice that the motifs inside the guard shell are not the 'reverse' of the exterior beating (repoussé ?) but work done in purpose.
Also the seam stitching of the scabbard is done with the finest technique; looks almost microscopic.
Looking with more attention to the blade, the elliptical 'concavities' are each separated by two dots.
Concerning its hexagonal section, i would say this gives it a more weapon like look.
When you mention to have seen on some European blades the elipses in a floral type configuration, i can think of a motif engraved in a sword for a Portuguese high rank owner. But of course this has no connection with the sword in discussion.
Still no solid trace as to where this sword comes from; and whether the blade was the one original to to the hilt.


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Old 11th November 2021, 07:56 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
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Thanks guys!
These comparisons found in Dean (1928) offer some clues indeed, but as previously noted, these small sword hilts were artistic creations, often privately commissioned, so any sort of consistency or other like examples is most unlikely. What can be seen are general trends or favored styling in the motif.
The only small sword maker I am aware of having 'pattern books' would be the cut steel hilt patterns by Matthew Boulton in London latter 18th c.

What seems unique in the example in OP is the vertically gadrooned grip which seems almost 'feathered' as well of course as the most unusual double head eagle. While as noted earlier, these Byzantine style eagles were heraldic in the arms of Russia, Austria and several countries, but more specific use in individual heraldry seems elusive.
It does seem that Masonic heraldry does use these in variation for some of the degrees etc. but this version seems more stylized than copied.

Perhaps it might be a personal interpretation simply recalling one of these possibilities artistically, or possibly some fraternal group or order ?

The hexagonal blade, atypical for small swords as a rule, does seem more weapon like, recalling the 'dragoon' blades of 18th c.
The ellipses in that floral pattern are exactly the configuration I was thinking of.


Interestingly, the M1796 officers sword had pretty much this shape guard so it seems to have become popular 1770s-90s and been known across Europe. The small sword itself had become pretty much outdated in civilian terms and military officers dress swords followed a heavier version of the style in 1790s.
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Last edited by Jim McDougall; 11th November 2021 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 12th November 2021, 03:07 AM   #4
Radboud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall View Post
Interestingly, the M1796 officers sword had pretty much this shape guard so it seems to have become popular 1770s-90s and been known across Europe. The small sword itself had become pretty much outdated in civilian terms and military officers dress swords followed a heavier version of the style in 1790s.
A. V. B. Norman dates the boatshell type of hilt to the 1720s and onwards. He referred to it as the Type 113 in his book, "The Rapier and Small-Sword 1460 - 1820"
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Old 12th November 2021, 04:38 PM   #5
Jim McDougall
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Originally Posted by Radboud View Post
A. V. B. Norman dates the boatshell type of hilt to the 1720s and onwards. He referred to it as the Type 113 in his book, "The Rapier and Small-Sword 1460 - 1820"
Thank you so much for the note on this! Norman's book is fantastic, and I overlooked checking it.
The thing about sword forms, structure and features is that they of course materialized over time, and became notable as they became popularized and more familiar. It is always intriguing to know the 'ancestry' of such things, and Mr. Norman was a master at such investigation.
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Old 12th November 2021, 05:04 PM   #6
fernando
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In both cases (M1796 + Norman) the guard indeed forms a 'broken' heart, but misses the pas d'ane. All in all, a different thing.
I follow Jim in that these these particular small swords are result of clients whims.
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Old 14th November 2021, 02:36 PM   #7
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Another reference on double eagles, which in Russia and Austria, etc were not always crowned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-headed_eagle. Used in quite a few places most people would not think of.
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