blade mystery

Jim McDougall · 13th August 2021, 11:21 PM

I really dont think these type of heavy curved blades were common in England in the 16th century, however there were examples of North European 'dusagge' (the 'Sinclair saber' type) which came back from Europe during campaigns with English participants. These were in essence forerunners of the Scottish basket hilt.
Obviously by the early 17th century hangers with such blades were being exported by Solingen into England and the famed Hounslow shops.

The idea of these magic numbers being just that is reprehensible to most students and collectors of arms as not empirically feasible, so not valid. This I have encountered many times in discussing such theories with many of them, but there are numbers of authors who have recognized that there is a certain plausibility to them.

As I have mentioned, why would a 'date' of establishment exist relating to a 'firm' or 'maker' on an unidentified blade? Further, in the images from Stuart's book, the number 1414 is used. This number and its other palindrome 1441 are the most commonly found on blades, and I listed earlier certain makers who favored and used other combinations........none of which had ANYTHING to do with their year of beginnings.

On the dog head hilt is ANNO 1414 on a sword from 1650s.............so WHO was the firm or maker established in 1414? However, we know this is a 'magic' number, and these numbers were used in the occult and talismanic charms used in Passau, and thereby in Solingen.

Here is the clincher, look at the picture of the sword (p.175) with the remarkably similar number to yours, ANNO 1551 ! off by 2 !!
Again, ANNO.

ANNO is of course, in the year of.....but among other meanings associated, 'God is gracious'., as in ANNO DOMINI, in the year of our Lord.
Talismanic augmentation to a magic (talismanic) invocation? I think so.
The occult was not always sinister, but religious in nature, as in the teachings of John Dee, late 16th c. occultist, astrologer, teacher who used a kind of alphabetic script which was regarded as 'Angelic'. Some of the glyphs in these are seen in markings on blades, and were perhaps talismanic much in the way of the running wolf, cross and orb etc.

Look at the fullering and ANNO 1553 on your example in pic 1.
Next (p.175, Mowbray) is a sword with similar fullers, in similar location is the 'sickle' mark and ANNO 1551
Next (p.172, the dog head sword, with markings and ANNO 1414, (an impossibly early date with no commemorative value viable)
Next: the dot and trellis designs in motif on this and numbers of these hangers 1620s-60s.
Seen augmenting the latten running wolf......it suggests perhaps either a Solingen maker acting on behalf of an English cutler/smith or that possibly a Hounslow maker may have added a running wolf with the known dot and trellis design. I would note here that these designs are known in other 'magic' connotations in degree as well.

13th August 2021, 11:21 PM	#15
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,949	I really dont think these type of heavy curved blades were common in England in the 16th century, however there were examples of North European 'dusagge' (the 'Sinclair saber' type) which came back from Europe during campaigns with English participants. These were in essence forerunners of the Scottish basket hilt. Obviously by the early 17th century hangers with such blades were being exported by Solingen into England and the famed Hounslow shops. The idea of these magic numbers being just that is reprehensible to most students and collectors of arms as not empirically feasible, so not valid. This I have encountered many times in discussing such theories with many of them, but there are numbers of authors who have recognized that there is a certain plausibility to them. As I have mentioned, why would a 'date' of establishment exist relating to a 'firm' or 'maker' on an unidentified blade? Further, in the images from Stuart's book, the number 1414 is used. This number and its other palindrome 1441 are the most commonly found on blades, and I listed earlier certain makers who favored and used other combinations........none of which had ANYTHING to do with their year of beginnings. On the dog head hilt is ANNO 1414 on a sword from 1650s.............so WHO was the firm or maker established in 1414? However, we know this is a 'magic' number, and these numbers were used in the occult and talismanic charms used in Passau, and thereby in Solingen. Here is the clincher, look at the picture of the sword (p.175) with the remarkably similar number to yours, ANNO 1551 ! off by 2 !! Again, ANNO. ANNO is of course, in the year of.....but among other meanings associated, 'God is gracious'., as in ANNO DOMINI, in the year of our Lord. Talismanic augmentation to a magic (talismanic) invocation? I think so. The occult was not always sinister, but religious in nature, as in the teachings of John Dee, late 16th c. occultist, astrologer, teacher who used a kind of alphabetic script which was regarded as 'Angelic'. Some of the glyphs in these are seen in markings on blades, and were perhaps talismanic much in the way of the running wolf, cross and orb etc. Look at the fullering and ANNO 1553 on your example in pic 1. Next (p.175, Mowbray) is a sword with similar fullers, in similar location is the 'sickle' mark and ANNO 1551 Next (p.172, the dog head sword, with markings and ANNO 1414, (an impossibly early date with no commemorative value viable) Next: the dot and trellis designs in motif on this and numbers of these hangers 1620s-60s. Seen augmenting the latten running wolf......it suggests perhaps either a Solingen maker acting on behalf of an English cutler/smith or that possibly a Hounslow maker may have added a running wolf with the known dot and trellis design. I would note here that these designs are known in other 'magic' connotations in degree as well. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 13th August 2021 at 11:32 PM.