Takouskara

[Kubur]

Hi guys,

In fact, this sword was just an appertizer...
I wanted to see the responses and your interest in atypical swords.
The first sword posted came with another one, from the same sale and same seller, but no mention of origin. I would say in between Sudan, Ethiopia, Chad, maybe Nigeria???
The two swords were completely stucked in their scabbards.
The second sword has a very Ottoman guard, a German ? blade for Ethiopia (Jim?) and a kaskarish scabbard.
Despite the look, blade and hilt are very well connected with no movement.
The grip was made of leather like on kaskara (probably more recent), but the wire was lose and I removed it and had a good surprise under, in fact the whole hilt is made of one piece of brass (like some takouba) (gilded?). The most surprising is the pommel, I never saw such pommel...

Here are some old links with similar discussions around strange ottomanish kaskara...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...81&postcount=1

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...8&postcount=30

All the best,
Kubur

[TVV]

This sword is also a very interesting one. How is the blade fixed to the hilt: rivets or peened at the top of the pommel?

The scabbard with the characteristic widening looks like a kaskara scabbard.

The blade does not strike me as specifically made for export to Ethiopia. The patterns meant specifically for Ethiopia tend to have Ethiopian symbols, and the practice appears to have started during Menelik II's reign, while this blade looks earlier and more like a blade made for use in Europe, which subsequently wound up in Africa.

The cross guard with those quillons is unique for kaskaras, and to me is somewhat reminiscent of the quillons on swords from Southern Yemen, but there was Ottoman influence in quite a few places, including Egypt, which is even closer.

The pommel is unique, as one would have expected it to be at the same angle as other kaskara disk pommels, but it clearly is not. It is also weird that the blade would be fixed to the hilt in a manner where the base sticks above the guard. It looks like a quality, functional blade but the whole sword looks like something that was never really meant to be used in fighting, but rather for ceremonial or ritual purposes.

[Iain]

The blade is a good one and much older than the the export patterns for Ethiopia. These astral symbols are found on European blades from the 17th century and into the early 18th century. I have seen several of this pattern turn up in kaskara and takouba.

Regarding the hilt I have a slightly different idea... I have seen several kaskara and takouba converted into stage swords for theatre, the pommel in particular strikes me as work done in Europe.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Iain

Regarding the hilt I have a slightly different idea... I have seen several kaskara and takouba converted into stage swords for theatre, the pommel in particular strikes me as work done in Europe.

I remember that you wrote something like that about a shortened takouba, then I collected and saw several short takouba and kaskara and I disagree, some swords were just short, short swords, not for children, but for personal and practical reasons.

I was thinking like you about the pommel until I received the sword, the pommel is not added, it is one single piece of massive brass. I think you posted, or you have some takouba hilts with one single piece of brass, do you have an idea where they were made? I’m still struggling with the pommel…

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I remember that you wrote something like that about a shortened takouba, then I collected and saw several short takouba and kaskara and I disagree, some swords were just short, short swords, not for children, but for personal and practical reasons.

I was thinking like you about the pommel until I received the sword, the pommel is not added, it is one single piece of massive brass. I think you posted, or you have some takouba hilts with one single piece of brass, do you have an idea where they were made? I’m still struggling with the pommel…

I don't think shortened kaskara are made for the stage, I think some short kaskara with the lizard or alligator scabbards with sheet metal blades are made for tourists.

I have seen several swords that absolutely were modified for this. One was a takouba hilt on a replacement blade that was marked with the name of the theatre Many kaskara were also modified in Europe to have more "european" style medieval disc pommels. They appear in auctions sometimes, its really unfortunate but not uncommon.

I am struggling to see anything African about that pommel as well. yes, some takouba have solid cast hilts, but its usually done in one piece and in the traditional form. See the attached. Yours has a distinct guard, grip tube and then the pommel I think? or you think it was cast in one piece?

I dont' think I've ever seen a takouba with a pommel that was solid but not part of a solid cast hilt.

[Kubur]

Ok!

A last question, on the two swords that you posted: how the blades are fixed to the hilts?

The solar pommel is atypical but it doesnt mean that it is European... I wonder which kind of comments I would have received if the first sword posted was not published in Hales book...

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Ok!

A last question, on the two swords that you posted: how the blades are fixed to the hilts?

The solar pommel is atypical but it doesnt mean that it is European... I wonder which kind of comments I would have received if the first sword posted was not published in Hales book...

The first sword is atypical but its of a construction that's recognisable for takouba and kaskara. We can debate the exact region its from but with or without the Hale example its quite clear its in the same family as other takouba.

The shape of the second pommel of course doesn't mean it has to be European, I am also a believer that there are always unique examples... but its the overall construction as well as the shape. I would be happy to be wrong actually!

Good question on the blades being fixed to the hilts! Both those swords were owned by friends, you can see on the one there is a tang extending through, the second picture is another I used to own where there was some damage to the pommel and you can see there is a tang but it is not peened through the end, and a final one where there is a cast tang "nub" but no actual tang peened.

I think then its a mix, some of them are fixed using resin or some sort of glue and some are peened. All the ones I examined personally there was zero movement in the blade. The third option is if somehow they were cast directly onto the tangs...

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by TVV

The scabbard with the characteristic widening looks like a kaskara scabbard.

Yes, should be something linked to Kaskara and Sudan, nevertheless, some Mandingo swords and daggers scabbards/ sheaths have the same tip. So, I’m not 100% sure that this sword is kaskarish or taboukish.

Originally Posted by TVV

The blade does not strike me as specifically made for export to Ethiopia. The patterns meant specifically for Ethiopia tend to have Ethiopian symbols, and the practice appears to have started during Menelik II's reign, while this blade looks earlier and more like a blade made for use in Europe, which subsequently wound up in Africa.

Yes, please see Iain response, I agree 18th c. seems reasonable, I saw the same blades on Tunisian & Tuareg swords if I’m not mistaken.

Originally Posted by TVV

The cross guard with those quillons is unique for kaskaras, and to me is somewhat reminiscent of the quillons on swords from Southern Yemen, but there was Ottoman influence in quite a few places, including Egypt, which is even closer.

It’s the second time that Yemen is mentioned. Maybe I should look at the East (Eritrea) and not the West (Chad)…

Originally Posted by TVV

How is the blade fixed to the hilt: rivets or peened at the top of the pommel?
The pommel is unique, as one would have expected it to be at the same angle as other kaskara disk pommels, but it clearly is not. It is also weird that the blade would be fixed to the hilt in a manner where the base sticks above the guard

Excellent question, the blade is well fixed to the guard, not peened at the top, just a kind of glue, resin and a small brass rivet. I was sure that the space between the base and the guard will raise some questions. I had the same doubts, in fact until I got the sword. I have many ethno swords and it’s not uncommon, with Indian, Indonesian swords it is very common. In our Western occidental minds, we think about aesthetics, it seems that the people who did this sword were not concerned by this gap.

Originally Posted by TVV

It looks like a quality, functional blade but the whole sword looks like something that was never really meant to be used in fighting, but rather for ceremonial or ritual purposes.

Well, big discussion, I already mentioned in this forum that 50% of the swords here, if not more, were ceremonial or ritual, and very few were used for war or to kill people.
For the sword that I posted, well, with such nice hilt, nice blade and nice scabbard, I don’t see any reason why the sword was not used for fighting, especially with the wire added probably in the early 20th c.
But I agree this sword was maybe just ceremonial or ritual like the first one that I posted… I didn’t find any blood on the blade, only mine as both were very sharp (a good sign of fighting blades)…