Frisian or Flemish wooden part of a carriage?

AHorsa · 4th July 2021, 04:18 PM

Dear All

I just acquired this wooden piece which measured 113 x 33cm and is pretty heavy (I don´t have a scale, but I guess around 20 Kg).
It comes form Friesland but I think it also could be Flemish (or sth totally different). It seems to be pretty old. There are remains of rectangular nails and the depiction of the lion looks pretty old to me. It was later converted into a wardrobe, but after all I think it originally could have been a part from a 18th century carriage. I hope somebody can help to identify that piece.

Any opinion appreciated

Kind regards
Andreas

ariel · 12th July 2021, 07:48 PM

Nice!!! Great carving and beautiful patination.
Since you presumably do not have a carriage, it might serve just as a splendid wall hanging. Do you have a fireplace?
BTW, there is something "Chinese" in this lion.

Saracen · 12th July 2021, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

BTW, there is something "Chinese" in this lion.

I think it's a Sinhala lion. Maybe there is some connection with Dutch Ceylon?
Then that piece is not younger than the end of the 18th century.

AHorsa · 13th July 2021, 11:10 PM

Thanks for your comments! Sadly I do not have a neither fireplace nor a horse wagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saracen

I think it's a Sinhala lion.

Thats a pretty interesting idea. I meanwhile found some similar examples, but the lions look different
https://www.imago-images.com/st/0089458027

If the lion on the piece in discussion has a link to a dutch colony, that would make it an interesting piece of history

Saracen · 17th July 2021, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa

If the lion on the piece in discussion has a link to a dutch colony, that would make it an interesting piece of history

This link seems obvious to me. Some stylistic elements of this image of a lion have obvious traditional features, which can be seen, for example, on the pommel of the kastane sword. Probably the master or the customer of this work wanted to emphasize his connection with Ceylon.

Ren Ren · 18th July 2021, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saracen

I think it's a Sinhala lion. Maybe there is some connection with Dutch Ceylon?
Then that piece is not younger than the end of the 18th century.

This is a beautiful version!
I think that the answer may be suggested by studying the wood from which the carved part is made.
If it is tropical wood, then there is a high probability that the carving was carried out in Ceylon (or another colony). If the wood is of European origin, then I doubt that it was exported for processing.

Saracen · 18th July 2021, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

If the wood is of European origin, then I doubt that it was exported for processing.

Why do you exclude the work of a master who was taken out of the colony in the metropole? Only some elements have Ceylon shades, the overall composition is Dutch.

Ren Ren · 18th July 2021, 02:04 AM

I am not aware of the facts of the export of labor from the colonies to Europe before the 1st World War. But I cannot rule it out completely.

Saracen · 18th July 2021, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

I am not aware of the facts of the export of labor from the colonies to Europe before the 1st World War. But I cannot rule it out completely.

You wouldn't say that people couldn't just travel, would you?

Anytime.
I do not think that the analysis of wood can give a reliable result, even if its origin is established. There are many explanations for the appearance of the Sinhala lion on a product made of European wood, for example, from the hands of a Dutch master who wanted to emphasize some of connection with Ceylon. His own or the customer's.

Ren Ren · 19th July 2021, 01:22 AM

Amazing things rarely happen. We both know how a little black boy from Abyssinia made an excellent career in military service in Russia - in the middle of the 18th century he was promoted to brigadier general.

Saracen · 19th July 2021, 07:13 PM

Such things happen more often, although this does not make them any less amazing.
Don't need to be a little black Ibrahim Petrovich

to keep in touch with the culture of a foreign country that has become close and surround yourself with objects of this culture after returning to your homeland.
The example of a "White Bedouin" seems to me more appropriate in the context of this discussion).

M ELEY · 20th July 2021, 08:09 AM

I could believe Singhalese lion as well, as they were often stylized. here's my hanger presumably made in Ceylon ca.1660 for the Dutch market-

kahnjar1 · 22nd July 2021, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saracen

Such things happen more often, although this does not make them any less amazing.
Don't need to be a little black Ibrahim Petrovich

to keep in touch with the culture of a foreign country that has become close and surround yourself with objects of this culture after returning to your homeland.
The example of a "White Bedouin" seems to me more appropriate in the context of this discussion).

Your subject photo is of course T.E.Lawrence.....Lawrence of Arabia.
Stu

Saracen · 22nd July 2021, 04:08 PM

Yes, of course. "White Bedouin" is the name of a statuette by Kathleen Scott, for which Lawrence of Arabia posed.

4th July 2021, 04:18 PM	#1
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Frisian or Flemish wooden part of a carriage? Dear All I just acquired this wooden piece which measured 113 x 33cm and is pretty heavy (I don´t have a scale, but I guess around 20 Kg). It comes form Friesland but I think it also could be Flemish (or sth totally different). It seems to be pretty old. There are remains of rectangular nails and the depiction of the lion looks pretty old to me. It was later converted into a wardrobe, but after all I think it originally could have been a part from a 18th century carriage. I hope somebody can help to identify that piece. Any opinion appreciated Kind regards Andreas Attached Images

19th July 2021, 07:13 PM	#11
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Such things happen more often, although this does not make them any less amazing. Don't need to be a little black Ibrahim Petrovich to keep in touch with the culture of a foreign country that has become close and surround yourself with objects of this culture after returning to your homeland. The example of a "White Bedouin" seems to me more appropriate in the context of this discussion). Attached Images

20th July 2021, 08:09 AM	#12
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,100	I could believe Singhalese lion as well, as they were often stylized. here's my hanger presumably made in Ceylon ca.1660 for the Dutch market- Attached Images

12th July 2021, 07:48 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Nice!!! Great carving and beautiful patination. Since you presumably do not have a carriage, it might serve just as a splendid wall hanging. Do you have a fireplace? BTW, there is something "Chinese" in this lion.

18th July 2021, 02:04 AM	#8
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 374	I am not aware of the facts of the export of labor from the colonies to Europe before the 1st World War. But I cannot rule it out completely.

19th July 2021, 01:22 AM	#10
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 374	Amazing things rarely happen. We both know how a little black boy from Abyssinia made an excellent career in military service in Russia - in the middle of the 18th century he was promoted to brigadier general.

22nd July 2021, 04:08 PM	#14
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Yes, of course. "White Bedouin" is the name of a statuette by Kathleen Scott, for which Lawrence of Arabia posed.