new kaskara

[Edster]

Marc,

This is off topic, but since you are a blacksmith you no doubt have experience in applying stamps to metal. Your experience could help in identifying dates & origins of imported and locally made blades. The question: would a maker's mark or other stamp be applied with the strike of a hammer to a relative soft sword blade just after forging or after the blade had been quenched and drawn? We see marks attributed to a retailer after a European blade was imported, or maybe as fake marks to impute quality, etc. Also, some marks are a identified as rack or inventory stamps applied in an amory, etc.

Would a sword blade be softer at forte area that may not have been quenched and accept a stamp better? This may be why makers marks are often seen under langets.

Best regards,
Ed

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Edster

Marc,

This is off topic, but since you are a blacksmith you no doubt have experience in applying stamps to metal. Your experience could help in identifying dates & origins of imported and locally made blades. The question: would a maker's mark or other stamp be applied with the strike of a hammer to a relative soft sword blade just after forging or after the blade had been quenched and drawn? We see marks attributed to a retailer after a European blade was imported, or maybe as fake marks to impute quality, etc. Also, some marks are a identified as rack or inventory stamps applied in an amory, etc.

Would a sword blade be softer at forte area that may not have been quenched and accept a stamp better? This may be why makers marks are often seen under langets.

Best regards,
Ed

Ed, marks can be cold or hot stamped. Cold stamping can occur on a heat treated blade. Cold stamps will generally have thinner lines while hot stamps tend to be deeper and wider. I had a long conversation about this with an Italian smith who was also of the opinion cold stamps were often applied after the fact by resellers. A good example of this are cold stamped Ferara blades.

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Edster

Marc,

This is off topic, but since you are a blacksmith you no doubt have experience in applying stamps to metal. Your experience could help in identifying dates & origins of imported and locally made blades. The question: would a maker's mark or other stamp be applied with the strike of a hammer to a relative soft sword blade just after forging or after the blade had been quenched and drawn? We see marks attributed to a retailer after a European blade was imported, or maybe as fake marks to impute quality, etc. Also, some marks are a identified as rack or inventory stamps applied in an amory, etc.

Would a sword blade be softer at forte area that may not have been quenched and accept a stamp better? This may be why makers marks are often seen under langets.

Best regards,
Ed

Hi Ed
Ian's answer is correct , the steel of a swords blade has to be able to parry a blow from a sword, cut, chop and stab the oposant, so it should not be to hard so it is soft enough to do the cold marking.
As Ian said hot markings are deeper, done with hammer or press.
If i had to choose a place to put the marking on the blade, it would be the ricasso/ forte if their is one or near the crossgard, that area should not be to hard, edge's shoult be harder, not the place to make a mark.
So both techniques where used. Hopefully this answers your question a little
bit.
Best regards
Marc

[David R]

Interesting that you see this as being a trade blade. My own has exactly the same style, and I took it to be a local product.... No stamps, which is one of the reasons I did no think it a trade item.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by David R

Interesting that you see this as being a trade blade. My own has exactly the same style, and I took it to be a local product.... No stamps, which is one of the reasons I did no think it a trade item.

The piece in the original post looks to have a ricasso. Not something I recall seeing on locally made blades. I'd attribute your example as local manufacture as you supposed.

[David R]

I don't see a ricasso, I see thickened edges where the langets are, but not the actual squared off section that you have with a ricasso. Perhaps the author can confirm or deny.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by David R

I don't see a ricasso, I see thickened edges where the langets are, but not the actual squared off section that you have with a ricasso. Perhaps the author can confirm or deny.

Thats the element I was referring to. Never see it on native blades.

[David R]

Originally Posted by Iain

Thats the element I was referring to. Never see it on native blades.

Over the years I have had a couple (perhaps 3 even) trade blades and they did not have a ricasso, merely a blunt, less sharp, thickened area at the base. A ricasso proper is a distinct squared off base, like this...

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by David R

I don't see a ricasso, I see thickened edges where the langets are, but not the actual squared off section that you have with a ricasso. Perhaps the author can confirm or deny.

Hi David
There is no classic ricasso, the fuller stops against the crosshandle. I see this as a ricasso where the fuller runs through.
I recall reading an older thread about the same type of ricasso on a single wide fuller blade like on my kaskara, probably an european import blade.
The blade on your kaskara looks to be of a good quality.
Its not so important for me if it's european or native, as long as it's used and well made.
Best regards
Marc

[David R]

I am happy with blades of either origin, so long as they are a decent piece. I do like the one I posted, a lot. It is surprisingly light and handy to wield by virtue of a good and well done distal taper, and a fair old edge to it as well.

47 years ago I worked on a dig in Shropshire with a very old veteran of the Sudan administration in the 1920's. He told me that the favourite ploy was to feint a strike down, and then backhand up into the inner thigh to hamstring or to cut the femoral artery.... He sat in on the native court where they decided on the blood money owed to a man who lost a leg to that blow. 9 black camels was the final award.
Strikes to the outside of the arm or leg counted as intent to wound, cuts to the inside arm or leg were adjudged to be intent to kill, and compensation graded accordingly. (RIP Max,we will never see your like again).

[Edster]

Thanks Iain & Marc for the clarifications. In my ignorance I would have thought the heat treated blade would be considerably harder than one freshly forged and considerably resist a hammer blow on a stamp die. I guess commercial dies as one piece with complex designs were applied either cold or hot per their depth often with a hydraulic press. Makers marks like those used by Kassaka smiths were made with a series of small simple dies also cold applied. No doubt smiths only wanted to "sign" their work after it was complete and proven of quality.

Thanks again,
Ed