Hunting sword ... for comments

fernando · 21st June 2021, 05:24 PM

Duly noted, Jim.

fernando · 23rd June 2021, 01:27 PM

Not precisely referrng to this (my) specific example, but i like the following abstract by Gerhard Grosse Loescher ...

The hirschfanger was the main weapon for the royal hunt and for foresters. In the electorate Hanover George III. introduced two models of hirschfanger by royal decree. High-ranking hunting or forestry officials were provided with a hirschfanger with white ivory grip and prominent crossguard without clamshell (ill. 1). Lower ranking officials were prescribed a hirschfanger with wire-wrapped staghorn grip and crossguard with curved quillons (ill. 2). An unusual feature of both models is the collar on the quillon block which fits over the throat of the scabbard and is supposed to protect the blade from moisture. Both models remained the service hirschfangers to be worn with uniform until the abolition of the kingdom of Hanover in 1866. For full dress, the weapon was suspended from an embroidered hanger, for normal service it was attached to a fixture on the black leather waist belt (Leibkoppel). In the middle of the 19(th) century both models became smaller and more delicate. Apart from the regulation hirschfanger model, so-called 'couteaux de chasse' were also carried during service. These were short, knife-like sidearms incorporating elements from the hilt of the hirschfanger. The heraldic depictions on the blade: royal crown and Saxon horse running on pasture above the wolfsangel, support its attribution to Hanover. 'Couteaux' were recorded in connection with the Hanoverian royal hunt in 1855. The head of the administration of the Hanoverian forest, Heinrich Burckhardt, used the term 'couteau' and it can be assumed that apart from the official hirschfanger models, knife-like sidearms were used for hunting and forestry. Their design was not regulated but their hilt often incorporated elements of the official models (quillon, pommel, scabbard mounts etc.).

Jim McDougall · 23rd June 2021, 01:46 PM

Outstanding research and well placed insight regarding these hunting hangers! Thank you Fernando. It is great to have these kinds of data placed in threads like this where a form is focused upon, and key information is compiled for future research. Most information on these 'hunting' weapons is pretty much cursory as far as styles and decoration, so invaluable material like this is so important.

corrado26 · 23rd June 2021, 04:57 PM

For further explanation:
In Germany there have been two major hunting knives, the "Hirschfaenger" and the "Jagdplaute". The deer catcher normally had a straight blade with two edges and the hunting clut had a curved back blade.
During the parforce hunt, the stags that were placed were cut through the hock tendons with the hunting clut, before the hunter finally hunted them down. In addition to their practical use, these weapons served as a symbol of the hunters' status.
Before the invention of firearms, the hunt was of course only dependent on stabbing weapons and tools. Such a stabbing weapon or such a knife are also deer catchers. They got their name because of their original purpose: They were used to catch heavy hoofed game, such as red deer such as a mighty stag, fallow deer but also wild boar or to give the animals a fatal sting.

fernando · 24th June 2021, 11:11 AM

Not forgetting that, apart from 'normalized' patterns, there were in the period examples made by rural smiths for the regional hunter, as also high end specimens ordered to skilled smiths by the wealthy class.
From a book of mine ...
1 - an example with an inscription on the blade "Donné par l'Emperor de d'Austriche à Mr. Jules Gerard 1854" (collection ducal Palace of Vila Viçosa - Portugal).
2 - an example signed by the famous Le Page mid XIX century (collection Ducal Palace of Vila Viçosa -Portugal).
3 - an example of the second half XIX century (collection Ducal Palace of Vila Viçosa -Portugal).
4 - an example equiped with a pistol (a not uncommon resource) of the XVIII century (Private collection).
5 - an example with a carved ivory hilt, Germany mid XVIII century (Metropolitan museum USA).

.

Jim McDougall · 24th June 2021, 08:35 PM

Great information on the German terminology Udo, thank you! It is always interesting to understand the etymology factors in these terms for weapons, and that the term 'knife' seems more broadly applied to these hangers.

Fernando, well noted and excellent examples, thank you for adding these which illustrate the wide scope of designs which far exceeded the more pedestrian working examples of these.
The 'hunt' was the upper echelon event of social affairs in most cases, and where fashion, elegance and styling was key in these accoutrements as worn by the nobility and landed gentry. This is why they are typically grouped with 'court' weapons as worn at dress affairs, and an elegantly appointed weapon was 'de rigueur' and meant to impress.

Although there were certain consistencies the the more commonly seen examples of these hunting hangers, as an art form in the mounts, the variations and themes have few bounds.

24th June 2021, 11:11 AM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Not forgetting that, apart from 'normalized' patterns, there were in the period examples made by rural smiths for the regional hunter, as also high end specimens ordered to skilled smiths by the wealthy class. From a book of mine ... 1 - an example with an inscription on the blade "Donné par l'Emperor de d'Austriche à Mr. Jules Gerard 1854" (collection ducal Palace of Vila Viçosa - Portugal). 2 - an example signed by the famous Le Page mid XIX century (collection Ducal Palace of Vila Viçosa -Portugal). 3 - an example of the second half XIX century (collection Ducal Palace of Vila Viçosa -Portugal). 4 - an example equiped with a pistol (a not uncommon resource) of the XVIII century (Private collection). 5 - an example with a carved ivory hilt, Germany mid XVIII century (Metropolitan museum USA). . Attached Images

21st June 2021, 05:24 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Duly noted, Jim.

23rd June 2021, 01:27 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Not precisely referrng to this (my) specific example, but i like the following abstract by Gerhard Grosse Loescher ... The hirschfanger was the main weapon for the royal hunt and for foresters. In the electorate Hanover George III. introduced two models of hirschfanger by royal decree. High-ranking hunting or forestry officials were provided with a hirschfanger with white ivory grip and prominent crossguard without clamshell (ill. 1). Lower ranking officials were prescribed a hirschfanger with wire-wrapped staghorn grip and crossguard with curved quillons (ill. 2). An unusual feature of both models is the collar on the quillon block which fits over the throat of the scabbard and is supposed to protect the blade from moisture. Both models remained the service hirschfangers to be worn with uniform until the abolition of the kingdom of Hanover in 1866. For full dress, the weapon was suspended from an embroidered hanger, for normal service it was attached to a fixture on the black leather waist belt (Leibkoppel). In the middle of the 19(th) century both models became smaller and more delicate. Apart from the regulation hirschfanger model, so-called 'couteaux de chasse' were also carried during service. These were short, knife-like sidearms incorporating elements from the hilt of the hirschfanger. The heraldic depictions on the blade: royal crown and Saxon horse running on pasture above the wolfsangel, support its attribution to Hanover. 'Couteaux' were recorded in connection with the Hanoverian royal hunt in 1855. The head of the administration of the Hanoverian forest, Heinrich Burckhardt, used the term 'couteau' and it can be assumed that apart from the official hirschfanger models, knife-like sidearms were used for hunting and forestry. Their design was not regulated but their hilt often incorporated elements of the official models (quillon, pommel, scabbard mounts etc.).

23rd June 2021, 01:46 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Outstanding research and well placed insight regarding these hunting hangers! Thank you Fernando. It is great to have these kinds of data placed in threads like this where a form is focused upon, and key information is compiled for future research. Most information on these 'hunting' weapons is pretty much cursory as far as styles and decoration, so invaluable material like this is so important.

23rd June 2021, 04:57 PM	#4
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,226	For further explanation: In Germany there have been two major hunting knives, the "Hirschfaenger" and the "Jagdplaute". The deer catcher normally had a straight blade with two edges and the hunting clut had a curved back blade. During the parforce hunt, the stags that were placed were cut through the hock tendons with the hunting clut, before the hunter finally hunted them down. In addition to their practical use, these weapons served as a symbol of the hunters' status. Before the invention of firearms, the hunt was of course only dependent on stabbing weapons and tools. Such a stabbing weapon or such a knife are also deer catchers. They got their name because of their original purpose: They were used to catch heavy hoofed game, such as red deer such as a mighty stag, fallow deer but also wild boar or to give the animals a fatal sting.

24th June 2021, 08:35 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Great information on the German terminology Udo, thank you! It is always interesting to understand the etymology factors in these terms for weapons, and that the term 'knife' seems more broadly applied to these hangers. Fernando, well noted and excellent examples, thank you for adding these which illustrate the wide scope of designs which far exceeded the more pedestrian working examples of these. The 'hunt' was the upper echelon event of social affairs in most cases, and where fashion, elegance and styling was key in these accoutrements as worn by the nobility and landed gentry. This is why they are typically grouped with 'court' weapons as worn at dress affairs, and an elegantly appointed weapon was 'de rigueur' and meant to impress. Although there were certain consistencies the the more commonly seen examples of these hunting hangers, as an art form in the mounts, the variations and themes have few bounds.