Jian Sword Buddha

JoeCanada42 · 16th May 2021, 06:02 PM

Josh-stout, your opinion drew me back to this thread,, as said before sometimes new swords are made to a better quality than the old ones, I found an example of my sword being called a Tai chi masters sword, to my understanding they use battle ready swords for cutting tests.
I still haven't seen any other similar examples except the one in that video and another one with similar fittings not the pommel called 19c which remains for auction. I have seen a recent YouTube video where they talk about all the points of a good Jian besides the balance point, which are all good on my sword to be a user. ill link the video.
I have had a lot of fun with the sword, I can do several spinning hand moves and can consistently hear the hasuji or sword wind cutting sound when practicing cuts. its definitely well enough to be a user in my opinion.
there is signs of age on the blade so
I seriously doubt it is modern or recent, or I think we would see some similar examples on the market, I don't think the functional quality is poor at all, just the finish on the fittings, I heard the Jian sword is meant to break the opponents sword and even cut through amour. anyways its proven to be more unique than any other modern ones I see, and more interesting then the comparable vintage ones that sell for a lot. the fittings may look poor but the sword until thoroughly tested could prove to be good quality, recent, vintage or antique.
I am gaining more appreciation for the qualities of this sword, I would rather it wasn't put down , id bet it would cut in half most other jians I see for sale.

JoeCanada42 · 16th May 2021, 06:07 PM

these videos were new on youtube and i found them very informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iac6Ie4snUc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H67oI6pv8U4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvbKzvUm8rA

JoeCanada42 · 17th May 2021, 01:32 AM

I no longer believe this one is for sale so ill post some picks. it is the only other sword apart from the one in the YouTube video, that is similar to mine. until recently it was listed with augeo gallery and in 2016 it looks like it was listed with helios, they call it 19c. it has the same scabbard fittings and the guard but without buddha and the different pommel, the blade also looks newer. and is longer.

JoeCanada42 · 17th May 2021, 01:35 AM

id love to know what it says, I notice the pommel is one solid piece with the ferrule, where as my Jian is missing the pommel ferrule

Ren Ren · 18th May 2021, 12:43 AM

These are the opening lines from "Song of the Precious Sword" 宝剑篇 by poet Li Qiao 李嶠 (654? -714?), included in a collection compiled by another poet of the Tang Dynasty, Cui Rong 崔融 (653-706).
Lines are broken, missing characters are enclosed in square brackets, line-by-line according to a modern Chinese source.

吴山开，
越溪涸，
三金合冶[成宝锷]。
淬绿水，
鉴红云，
五彩焰起[光氛氲]。

My translation is probably not very good - it is a complex poetic text filled with ancient symbols.
"Mount Wushan opened,
The stormy stream falling [from her] has dried up,
Three metals combined in an alloy [turned into a precious [double-edged] blade].
Tempered in crystal clear water
In the Hongyun (Red Cloud) vessel,
From the five-colored flame (magical spiritual power) [a brilliance of courage (prosperity)] appears".

Mount Wushan is located in Shaanxi Province. Hongyun may be the name of the mountain, or perhaps a proper name, it is not clear. The stormy stream falling from the mountains may be an allusion to the legendary beauty Xi Shi "destroying kingdoms".
The lines engraved on the blade are interrupted - the person who took the sword in hand had to finish them from memory. This is such a graceful Chinese game of education and erudition, widespread among scientists and officials. On this basis, we can confidently assume that the sword was unlikely to belong to a military man or a nouveau riche merchant.

JoeCanada42 · 18th May 2021, 01:51 PM

Thank You very much Ren Ren for the great assistance, what a cool translation, I wonder about the alloy.

josh stout · 18th May 2021, 02:57 PM

Yes, that is also a new sword. The yellow orange ray skin is a give away, but also everything else.

Do you see that line running lengthwise? That is a fake forging error. It is supposed to mark where the sanmai edge and body meet. A cold shut, or other similar forging error is the kind of thing that you should look for in an antique, but that one is huge and ugly. It is there to convince the unwary that the blade is sanmai, but is actually a sign saying "stay away".

Take some time to acquaint yourself with antiques in general. Unfortunately Chinese antiques are one of the worst places to start. Almost every Chinese antique you see will be a recent reproduction, and that includes swords. Reproductions from the 1990s are starting to acquire a little age, but they are still reproductions.

To see pictures of actual antiques, you need to go to the websites of reputable dealers who specialize in Chinese swords. You can also look at pictures posted in these discussion groups, if the community opinion supports the posted example as an original.

If you look elsewhere for examples of reproductions listed as antiques, you will find them.

To see a good variety of reproductions, simply look up "antique Chinese sword" on eBay, and look at full length jian with complete fittings.

Every single one is less than forty years old.

17th May 2021, 01:32 AM	#3
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	I no longer believe this one is for sale so ill post some picks. it is the only other sword apart from the one in the YouTube video, that is similar to mine. until recently it was listed with augeo gallery and in 2016 it looks like it was listed with helios, they call it 19c. it has the same scabbard fittings and the guard but without buddha and the different pommel, the blade also looks newer. and is longer. Attached Images

16th May 2021, 06:02 PM	#1
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Josh-stout, your opinion drew me back to this thread,, as said before sometimes new swords are made to a better quality than the old ones, I found an example of my sword being called a Tai chi masters sword, to my understanding they use battle ready swords for cutting tests. I still haven't seen any other similar examples except the one in that video and another one with similar fittings not the pommel called 19c which remains for auction. I have seen a recent YouTube video where they talk about all the points of a good Jian besides the balance point, which are all good on my sword to be a user. ill link the video. I have had a lot of fun with the sword, I can do several spinning hand moves and can consistently hear the hasuji or sword wind cutting sound when practicing cuts. its definitely well enough to be a user in my opinion. there is signs of age on the blade so I seriously doubt it is modern or recent, or I think we would see some similar examples on the market, I don't think the functional quality is poor at all, just the finish on the fittings, I heard the Jian sword is meant to break the opponents sword and even cut through amour. anyways its proven to be more unique than any other modern ones I see, and more interesting then the comparable vintage ones that sell for a lot. the fittings may look poor but the sword until thoroughly tested could prove to be good quality, recent, vintage or antique. I am gaining more appreciation for the qualities of this sword, I would rather it wasn't put down , id bet it would cut in half most other jians I see for sale.

16th May 2021, 06:07 PM	#2
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	these videos were new on youtube and i found them very informative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iac6Ie4snUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H67oI6pv8U4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvbKzvUm8rA

17th May 2021, 01:35 AM	#4
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	id love to know what it says, I notice the pommel is one solid piece with the ferrule, where as my Jian is missing the pommel ferrule

18th May 2021, 12:43 AM	#5
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 379	These are the opening lines from "Song of the Precious Sword" 宝剑篇 by poet Li Qiao 李嶠 (654? -714?), included in a collection compiled by another poet of the Tang Dynasty, Cui Rong 崔融 (653-706). Lines are broken, missing characters are enclosed in square brackets, line-by-line according to a modern Chinese source. 吴山开，越溪涸，三金合冶[成宝锷]。淬绿水，鉴红云，五彩焰起[光氛氲]。 My translation is probably not very good - it is a complex poetic text filled with ancient symbols. "Mount Wushan opened, The stormy stream falling [from her] has dried up, Three metals combined in an alloy [turned into a precious [double-edged] blade]. Tempered in crystal clear water In the Hongyun (Red Cloud) vessel, From the five-colored flame (magical spiritual power) [a brilliance of courage (prosperity)] appears". Mount Wushan is located in Shaanxi Province. Hongyun may be the name of the mountain, or perhaps a proper name, it is not clear. The stormy stream falling from the mountains may be an allusion to the legendary beauty Xi Shi "destroying kingdoms". The lines engraved on the blade are interrupted - the person who took the sword in hand had to finish them from memory. This is such a graceful Chinese game of education and erudition, widespread among scientists and officials. On this basis, we can confidently assume that the sword was unlikely to belong to a military man or a nouveau riche merchant.

18th May 2021, 01:51 PM	#6
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Thank You very much Ren Ren for the great assistance, what a cool translation, I wonder about the alloy.

18th May 2021, 02:57 PM	#7
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Yes, that is also a new sword. The yellow orange ray skin is a give away, but also everything else. Do you see that line running lengthwise? That is a fake forging error. It is supposed to mark where the sanmai edge and body meet. A cold shut, or other similar forging error is the kind of thing that you should look for in an antique, but that one is huge and ugly. It is there to convince the unwary that the blade is sanmai, but is actually a sign saying "stay away". Take some time to acquaint yourself with antiques in general. Unfortunately Chinese antiques are one of the worst places to start. Almost every Chinese antique you see will be a recent reproduction, and that includes swords. Reproductions from the 1990s are starting to acquire a little age, but they are still reproductions. To see pictures of actual antiques, you need to go to the websites of reputable dealers who specialize in Chinese swords. You can also look at pictures posted in these discussion groups, if the community opinion supports the posted example as an original. If you look elsewhere for examples of reproductions listed as antiques, you will find them. To see a good variety of reproductions, simply look up "antique Chinese sword" on eBay, and look at full length jian with complete fittings. Every single one is less than forty years old.