Capt. Broke's Sword

M ELEY · 16th May 2021, 06:01 AM

Hello CC. Is the ship battle you mention on the page you posted? I'll definitely give it a look! These ingagements at sea were always one-of-a-kind, with often little unforseen factors tipping the balance of who won. I'm reminded of the fellow up in the rigging of John Paul Jones' ship tossing grenades onto the British enemy off of Flamborough Head. That one concise factor made all the difference in the outcome...

Jim, I knew you'd appreciate this site that CC was so gracious to post! Ships of the day were often thought of as nothing more that nautical moving platforms to stack cannons on, in a sense! Of course, shear size and amount of cannons weren't everything. The continually changing factors of weather, ship angle, possible boarding opportunities, damage done, etc, kept the 'chess board' alive and one had to have strategy to know when and where to attack. Very exciting stuff!

Jim McDougall · 16th May 2021, 02:31 PM

Hi Capn,
Very good analogies! Nautical battles were indeed very much like chess, and the strategies and tactics very different than warfare on terra firma. Your description of these vessels as virtual fortresses is also spot on.

In much research on the firepower of vessels in 'the age of sail' there is so much fascinating attention the the 'guns', and things like the markings on them with weights and positioning on decks in addition to the foundry marks.
Positioning these guns was considerably based on weights in addition to strategic firing locations.
Capt. Broke was a brilliant tactician in the use of nautical firepower.

As the 'Bon Homme Richard' was mentioned, I hope I may bring up some information on that famed ship in this context without too much digression from this discourse.

With positioning of the ships, the Bon Homme Richard, in the Battle of Flamborough Head (off the coast of Yorkshire) on Sept. 23, 1779 was finally lashed to the British Serapis, a much larger and heavily armed ship of the line. While obviously this was to facilitate boarding, it also likely to relieve the heavy barrage of cannon fire.

At heavy cost of lives on both sides, Serapis finally surrendered. It was a Pyrrhic victory as the Bon Homme Richard was heavily damaged and on fire. John Paul Jones, aboard the captured Serapis (also heavily damaged) tried for 36 hours to save the Bon Homme Richard, but it finally sank.

The reason the final resting place of the 'Richard' remains unknown is because it is unclear how far these ships drifted from the battle location as the struggle to save them ensued. It seems the wreck may bed situated as far as 25 to 30 miles out, and the fishing vessels which often snag bits of debris or such clues typically are closer, so that often helpful option is not at hand.

CutlassCollector · 16th May 2021, 07:56 PM

You're right Jim - the experience and skill needed to navigate, maneuver and fight a sailing warship was exceptional. One of the reasons for the decline of the French navy after the revolution was the loss of these skills with the decimation of the officer class.

But of course once it came down to boarding then it was all down to messy hand to hand combat.

In 1798 Napoleon was so pleased with the capture of the HMS Ambuscade that he ordered a painting of the battle. It was completed in 1801 - so practically a photograph! It depicts all the weapons of a boarding action - pistols, muskets (both ends), cutlasses, pikes and a goodly number of axes. The French crew can be clearly seen holding the ships together with grappling irons.

Jim McDougall · 16th May 2021, 11:36 PM

Thank you CC, great artwork!!
It seems reasonable that the strategy in gunnery would be keyed toward the masts and rigging of the opposing ship, thus disabling her from any tactical maneuvering. It has not seemed to me that the objective was to sink the opposing vessel (except perhaps in larger pitched battles to remove firepower) so disabling would be primary.

The boarding and close contact were of course the defining moments in the final conflict, and it seems there were often Marines and other musket men on board to open fire on the other ranks on the opposing vessel. The physical contact in boarding melee must have been ghastly.

Bob A · 17th May 2021, 01:56 AM

Sharpshooters in crow's nests did for Admiral Nelson, and many others as well. Deck cannons loaded with grapeshot did great slaughter to boarding parties.

In addition to the desperate fight to survive, the winning crews of these battles were awarded prize money, based on the value of the capture, which was shared by the crew, and was a strong disincentive to sink the enemy, and a strong motivator to do battle. A morning's hard work at close quarters could fetch a far fatter purse than a sailor would receive from His Majesty's exchequer per diem.

Those of you who might be interested in the Napoleonic Wars from a naval perspective might want to read Patrick O'Brian's wonderful historical novels covering the period. They have been called the greatest historical novels ever written - in English at any rate. Highly recommended. The first in the series is entitled Master and Commander.

Rick · 17th May 2021, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob A

Sharpshooters in crow's nests did for Admiral Nelson, and many others as well. Deck cannons loaded with grapeshot did great slaughter to boarding parties.

In addition to the desperate fight to survive, the winning crews of these battles were awarded prize money, based on the value of the capture, which was shared by the crew, and was a strong disincentive to sink the enemy, and a strong motivator to do battle. A morning's hard work at close quarters could fetch a far fatter purse than a sailor would receive from His Majesty's exchequer per diem.

Those of you who might be interested in the Napoleonic Wars from a naval perspective might want to read Patrick O'Brian's wonderful historical novels covering the period. They have been called the greatest historical novels ever written - in English at any rate. Highly recommended. The first in the series is entitled Master and Commander.

Bob, I shed real tears when I learned of O'Brian's death. I have read all his novels and his research was impeccable. No one so far has come near to reaching his level of talent in this genre. The battle of Shannon and Chesapeake is described near the end of The Fortune of War.

Rick · 17th May 2021, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you CC, great artwork!!
It seems reasonable that the strategy in gunnery would be keyed toward the masts and rigging of the opposing ship, thus disabling her from any tactical maneuvering. It has not seemed to me that the objective was to sink the opposing vessel (except perhaps in larger pitched battles to remove firepower) so disabling would be primary.

The boarding and close contact were of course the defining moments in the final conflict, and it seems there were often Marines and other musket men on board to open fire on the other ranks on the opposing vessel. The physical contact in boarding melee must have been ghastly.

Broke won the contest with Chesapeake by clearing her decks with grape. It was written that when Chesapeake was boarded the waist and quarterdeck were virtually cleared of men. By that time Lawrence and all four of his lieutenants were out of action with no one of rank in command. I believe that also by that time Chesapeake's helm had been shot away and her rudder had been disabled. Aiming high to disable rig was one approach; another is to sweep the decks and knock out the guns, crew and officers.

Jim McDougall · 17th May 2021, 05:17 AM

Bob and Rick, thank you so much for these insights. I am admittedly not very well versed in naval warfare and history, but it is truly fascinating to see these perspectives. I think I see another facet to my obsessions with history brewing

M ELEY · 17th May 2021, 05:14 PM

Very much agreed! The sweeping of the deck with cannons was also a maneuver that pirates used in desparation (as opposed to just getting their prey to surrender). When the Rover was attacked by Blackbeard's crew, they 'scrafed' the deck with shot. This time, however, Lt. Maynard played Teach's game and hid his remaining crew below beck. When Blackbeard's vessel approached, he saw the carnage and no resistance, so cried out for his crew to board the supposedly defeated ship. Once the sea dogs were on deck, Maynard's soldiers and sailors swarmed out of the hold to confront the pirate menace hand-to-hand. The rest, as they say, is history...

16th May 2021, 02:31 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,814	Hi Capn, Very good analogies! Nautical battles were indeed very much like chess, and the strategies and tactics very different than warfare on terra firma. Your description of these vessels as virtual fortresses is also spot on. In much research on the firepower of vessels in 'the age of sail' there is so much fascinating attention the the 'guns', and things like the markings on them with weights and positioning on decks in addition to the foundry marks. Positioning these guns was considerably based on weights in addition to strategic firing locations. Capt. Broke was a brilliant tactician in the use of nautical firepower. As the 'Bon Homme Richard' was mentioned, I hope I may bring up some information on that famed ship in this context without too much digression from this discourse. With positioning of the ships, the Bon Homme Richard, in the Battle of Flamborough Head (off the coast of Yorkshire) on Sept. 23, 1779 was finally lashed to the British Serapis, a much larger and heavily armed ship of the line. While obviously this was to facilitate boarding, it also likely to relieve the heavy barrage of cannon fire. At heavy cost of lives on both sides, Serapis finally surrendered. It was a Pyrrhic victory as the Bon Homme Richard was heavily damaged and on fire. John Paul Jones, aboard the captured Serapis (also heavily damaged) tried for 36 hours to save the Bon Homme Richard, but it finally sank. The reason the final resting place of the 'Richard' remains unknown is because it is unclear how far these ships drifted from the battle location as the struggle to save them ensued. It seems the wreck may bed situated as far as 25 to 30 miles out, and the fishing vessels which often snag bits of debris or such clues typically are closer, so that often helpful option is not at hand. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 16th May 2021 at 11:40 PM.

16th May 2021, 07:56 PM	#3
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 326	You're right Jim - the experience and skill needed to navigate, maneuver and fight a sailing warship was exceptional. One of the reasons for the decline of the French navy after the revolution was the loss of these skills with the decimation of the officer class. But of course once it came down to boarding then it was all down to messy hand to hand combat. In 1798 Napoleon was so pleased with the capture of the HMS Ambuscade that he ordered a painting of the battle. It was completed in 1801 - so practically a photograph! It depicts all the weapons of a boarding action - pistols, muskets (both ends), cutlasses, pikes and a goodly number of axes. The French crew can be clearly seen holding the ships together with grappling irons. Attached Images

16th May 2021, 06:01 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,082	Hello CC. Is the ship battle you mention on the page you posted? I'll definitely give it a look! These ingagements at sea were always one-of-a-kind, with often little unforseen factors tipping the balance of who won. I'm reminded of the fellow up in the rigging of John Paul Jones' ship tossing grenades onto the British enemy off of Flamborough Head. That one concise factor made all the difference in the outcome... Jim, I knew you'd appreciate this site that CC was so gracious to post! Ships of the day were often thought of as nothing more that nautical moving platforms to stack cannons on, in a sense! Of course, shear size and amount of cannons weren't everything. The continually changing factors of weather, ship angle, possible boarding opportunities, damage done, etc, kept the 'chess board' alive and one had to have strategy to know when and where to attack. Very exciting stuff!

16th May 2021, 11:36 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,814	Thank you CC, great artwork!! It seems reasonable that the strategy in gunnery would be keyed toward the masts and rigging of the opposing ship, thus disabling her from any tactical maneuvering. It has not seemed to me that the objective was to sink the opposing vessel (except perhaps in larger pitched battles to remove firepower) so disabling would be primary. The boarding and close contact were of course the defining moments in the final conflict, and it seems there were often Marines and other musket men on board to open fire on the other ranks on the opposing vessel. The physical contact in boarding melee must have been ghastly.

17th May 2021, 01:56 AM	#5
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 420	Sharpshooters in crow's nests did for Admiral Nelson, and many others as well. Deck cannons loaded with grapeshot did great slaughter to boarding parties. In addition to the desperate fight to survive, the winning crews of these battles were awarded prize money, based on the value of the capture, which was shared by the crew, and was a strong disincentive to sink the enemy, and a strong motivator to do battle. A morning's hard work at close quarters could fetch a far fatter purse than a sailor would receive from His Majesty's exchequer per diem. Those of you who might be interested in the Napoleonic Wars from a naval perspective might want to read Patrick O'Brian's wonderful historical novels covering the period. They have been called the greatest historical novels ever written - in English at any rate. Highly recommended. The first in the series is entitled Master and Commander.

17th May 2021, 05:17 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,814	Bob and Rick, thank you so much for these insights. I am admittedly not very well versed in naval warfare and history, but it is truly fascinating to see these perspectives. I think I see another facet to my obsessions with history brewing

17th May 2021, 05:14 PM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,082	Very much agreed! The sweeping of the deck with cannons was also a maneuver that pirates used in desparation (as opposed to just getting their prey to surrender). When the Rover was attacked by Blackbeard's crew, they 'scrafed' the deck with shot. This time, however, Lt. Maynard played Teach's game and hid his remaining crew below beck. When Blackbeard's vessel approached, he saw the carnage and no resistance, so cried out for his crew to board the supposedly defeated ship. Once the sea dogs were on deck, Maynard's soldiers and sailors swarmed out of the hold to confront the pirate menace hand-to-hand. The rest, as they say, is history...