interesting Persian item

ariel · 3rd May 2021, 07:39 PM

And here are fire strikers. One grasps one branch and strikes with the other. There were multiple other forms, but the principle remained the same. Some are dirt simple, some are very artistic.

ariel · 4th May 2021, 05:58 AM

To summarize :
Sword hanger hooks were built in two separate planes, mostly perpendicular to each other. The “Jeb” Stuart’s one is an exception and requires chains because of that.
Fire strikers were built as a single plane.

Oliver Pinchot · 4th May 2021, 06:31 AM

I'm with Ariel. It is certainly a flint striker.

Gustav · 4th May 2021, 12:48 PM

Just information regarding the item in #11.
That's actually a typical Javanese reins holder.

ariel · 7th May 2021, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Just information regarding the item in #11.
That's actually a typical Javanese reins holder.

Many things came to Indonesia from India and other counrties: Piso Podang pommel, Gulabhati handle, Borobudur, and, yes, even Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam.
It is certainly possible that these hooks might have been used as rein holders in Indonesia: they will work.
But as a rule, reins were held in place simply by putting them over the saddle pommel. This may be one of the reasons why Islamic saddles had tall pommels.
Here are Central Asian, Turkish and Afghani saddles.

But going back to the original thingamajig, it simply could not work as a sword or reins holder: engineering would not allow for it.

ariel · 7th May 2021, 05:11 PM

And here is a Ukrainian ( Turkish style) one.

Interested Party · 7th May 2021, 08:02 PM

My immediate impression when I saw the picture was a striker. After reading this thread I still think so, but with less conviction after seeing other possible uses. Could we see the aspect that is facing away in post #8? That would be the area of contact IMHO. I like that it would seem to direct the flint away from the knuckles.

Gustav · 8th May 2021, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Many things came to Indonesia from India and other counrties: Piso Podang pommel, Gulabhati handle, Borobudur, and, yes, even Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam.
It is certainly possible that these hooks might have been used as rein holders in Indonesia: they will work.
But as a rule, reins were held in place simply by putting them over the saddle pommel. This may be one of the reasons why Islamic saddles had tall pommels.
Here are Central Asian, Turkish and Afghani saddles.

But going back to the original thingamajig, it simply could not work as a sword or reins holder: engineering would not allow for it.

Ariel, no doubts about that all.
Just - the particular item shown in #11 has nothing to do with Cossacks, India, and the region between them. It comes from specific region and had specific purpose, which has nothing to do with the purpose you described to it.

ariel · 9th May 2021, 07:35 PM

You are correct: Alan’s example has nothing to do with Cossacks, India etc.
However, engineeringly it is a carbon copy of an item in post #22, that belonged to Zaporozhian ( Ukrainian) cossacks that they in turn copied from Turkish examples.
The Indonesians just did not need a belt hook hanger: they carried their weapons either tucked under the belt or hung on a baldrick over the shoulder. I am unaware of Javanese weapons with suspension fittings and rings on the scabbards.

Most likely they just took an item from some foreigners and used it for their own purpose.

7th May 2021, 05:11 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And here is a Ukrainian ( Turkish style) one. Attached Images

3rd May 2021, 07:39 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And here are fire strikers. One grasps one branch and strikes with the other. There were multiple other forms, but the principle remained the same. Some are dirt simple, some are very artistic. Attached Images

4th May 2021, 05:58 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	To summarize : Sword hanger hooks were built in two separate planes, mostly perpendicular to each other. The “Jeb” Stuart’s one is an exception and requires chains because of that. Fire strikers were built as a single plane.

4th May 2021, 06:31 AM	#3
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 471	I'm with Ariel. It is certainly a flint striker.

4th May 2021, 12:48 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,307	Just information regarding the item in #11. That's actually a typical Javanese reins holder.

7th May 2021, 08:02 PM	#7
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 518	My immediate impression when I saw the picture was a striker. After reading this thread I still think so, but with less conviction after seeing other possible uses. Could we see the aspect that is facing away in post #8? That would be the area of contact IMHO. I like that it would seem to direct the flint away from the knuckles.

9th May 2021, 07:35 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You are correct: Alan’s example has nothing to do with Cossacks, India etc. However, engineeringly it is a carbon copy of an item in post #22, that belonged to Zaporozhian ( Ukrainian) cossacks that they in turn copied from Turkish examples. The Indonesians just did not need a belt hook hanger: they carried their weapons either tucked under the belt or hung on a baldrick over the shoulder. I am unaware of Javanese weapons with suspension fittings and rings on the scabbards. Most likely they just took an item from some foreigners and used it for their own purpose.