Underhammer boot leg pistol

[Ian]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for sharing this interesting weapon and its history. I like the grip style and the wood it is made from--the grain is rich and beautiful! The sight line is not impaired by the hammer and the barrel seems quite long. Have you ever fired it to test its accuracy?

Ian

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Jim,

Thanks for sharing this interesting weapon and its history. I like the grip style and the wood it is made from--the grain is rich and beautiful! The sight line is not impaired by the hammer and the barrel seems quite long. Have you ever fired it to test its accuracy?

Ian

Thank you Ian! No, I am not a 'shooter' but interested in the history of the weapons. I would be very concerned about firing of such an old pistol, but it seems a consensus among the gun guys that as long as the charge is carefully measured etc. it is entirely feasible to fire these antiques.
It seems these guns were of large enough bore to be deadly in the circumstances they were used in, very close range.

Actually, in some reading on such close range discharge of black powder arms (Im sure to be corrected but I am not exactly a gun maven) that the victims clothing could be ignited.

Fernando has reminded me gently ( my age is creeping up on me) that I posted this already last October, so please indulge my redundance

The burl wood is characteristic of the beautiful woodwork well known in the furnishings and cabinetry of New England, and the gun stocks of the famed long rifles.
I am a bit puzzled by the sight on this, but do know that the 'underhammer' system was later used in a number of rifles, but not sure if that would have any bearing.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The burl wood is characteristic of the beautiful woodwork well known in the furnishings and cabinetry of New England, and the gun stocks of the famed long rifles.

.

The grain structure points to maple, which as you say was a common wood for gunstocks in the northeastern part of America into the first half of the 19th cent. Its use on firearms seems to have faded with the increasing use of machine production. I can speak from experience that the curly grain is quite tricky to shape with edge tools such as planes or spokeshaves; rasps and scrapers work better and perhaps the woodworking machinery of the early industrial era was not up to the delicacy of work that hand-shaping and carving could achieve.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... It seems these guns were of large enough bore to be deadly in the circumstances they were used in, very close range...The burl wood is characteristic of the beautiful woodwork well known in the furnishings and cabinetry of New England ...

Dear Jim, going back to your previous topic on this gun, this would be a 31 caliber, as also examples we see out there are of not so large caliber either ... mainly .36. Possibly they considered this was a bore large enough to stop a man and wouldn't oblige for sturdier/heavier barrels. Amazing that they still produce replicas of this type of guns, potentially for sports shooting. Surely not for my tastes as, besides not being a shooter (army time long gone) i find these guns simply bizarre ... to be candid.... and if you don't mind .
According the Flayderman's catalogue, the saw handle grips of your gun are made of walnut.
I have spotted a detail image of a underhammer mechanism; maybe not the one of your example but, maybe still interesting for perusal.


.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Philip! as always your insights into so many aspects of arms are always remarkable, and it is always more exciting to have these kinds of details to fully appreciate ones treasured weapons. I think the so called 'Kentucky' long rifles (which were actually made in Pennsylvania and other NE regions) have some of the most beautiful stocks I have ever seen.

Fernando, as always, I appreciate your candor, and most interesting views on weapons that we discuss. Being far from a 'gun guy', without the description from original purchase, I would have no idea how to determine the bore, but as previously noted, the close quarters probability for its use would render even these 'smaller' bores deadly enough to serve its purpose.

It seems I bought this gun from Norm (Flayderman) about 20 years ago, and I have been trying to find the original papers. He was one of the most renowned authorities on arms and particularly Americana, as well as being generous and always helpful in my never ending queries.

Thank you so much for the peek at the inner workings of this form of firearm system, which gives insight at how it worked.

As you well note, this under hammer gun is indeed 'bizarre', which is exactly why I liked it , which Im sure will agree is quite understandable
What is also bizarre is that I am a Texan, and NOT a gun guy!!! Other than my own military exposure over 55 years ago, simply have not found the general interest.

[kronckew]

They are indeed intriguing. They also were popular for duelling, the normal duelling pistol side hammer and nipple are in your vision when aiming, its off-centre motion and the exploding cap are distracting to the shooter. Unerhammers were less popular on rifles where you had your off hand and the grip in a vulnerable are, and it could not as easily be fired prone where the hammer might catch on surrounding materials near it. Some came with an optional forearm which made it a bit easier. Target sights and optical sights were also available.
Some pistols had trigger guards that also enclosed the hammer to help keep it from snagging. They also came in breech loaders!
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjzrUYgAzAI


And the Ultimate underhammer is a pre-percussion flintlock - how it works without the priming charge falling out, I have no Idea.

When the under hammers came out, duelling was however dying out in the States.

If cleaned and loaded correctly and consistently, they were quite accurate at pistol ranges, a .36 with a conical projectile is essentially a .38, a calibre still in use by police and world military inc. the USA with its metric disguise of 9mm. The 9mm, .36, .357, .38, are essentially all the same diameter, the cases are different for different powder charges and loading/ejection.

The breech loader underhammer was .58 cal. & originally fired a greased minnie-style conical projectile using a paper cartridge. The pistol uses a 40 grain chrge, the Rifle uses 140 grains and kicks a bit.

[Dmitry]

This is the best book on the subject.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-America.../dp/1931464464
For an enthusiast-collector of American firearms, these are rather inexpensive and not as desirable as most other firearms of that period. I don't know why, as they are all well-made, and full of character. I had one that I sold, and it took a good three years to find a buyer. They must have been quite popular in the mid-1800s, judging by the numbers extant.
I believe the interest today comes from the local collectors, as most of these were made in New England.

[Mel H]

An under hammer flintlock, It's May 1st, not April