Jian Sword Buddha

[Philip]

Originally Posted by JoeCanada42

also concerning the Jian bird and the sword I wanted to share this

Hi, Joe

Thanks much for sharing additional pics. The one in the scabbard, shown diagonally with a karabela pommel below, has features that point to it being a bona fide antique, probably late 19th to dawn of 20th cent. To be confirmed with an overall view and more details if you're interested in discussing it more. The one in the detail shots of blade décor appears to be post-1949, based on the style of inlays, and from what I can see of the guard. I saw brand-new swords with exactly the same workmanship and design for sale in China during a visit back in the late 1970s, and they were sold as martial arts equipment and not represented as antiques.

In the final analysis, if you see a sword for sale and it fits within the parameters of your interest in the subject (whether it be as a martial artist, or an interest in spirituality, or in historical objects as a record of art history and traditional technology), go ahead and enjoy! Individual preferences vary. No harm done, so long as you have an idea of what things are valued at, and are not the victim of a seller's deception.

[JoeCanada42]

Thank you Philip for the support and for looking at my sword,
and thanks everyone else as well

I have found a similar pommeled Jian with some differences and a different blade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixE4Qk_evrc

at about 2:05

Licorne Blanche Kung fu School ?????

I guess this means my sword is not as old or unique as I Hoped.

The video does leave me with a few questions...

[JoeCanada42]

the sword with the karabela hilt comparison, I found it online, and I only used when discussing some research on the symbol that often appears on the Jian.

the Sword with the engravings on the blade I saw sell on eBay for a considerable amount more. and I would have guessed was an old one...

[JoeCanada42]

concerning the YouTube video and my sword.

3 - Epée de Maître de Kung fu Bouddhiste, tête du bouddha Sâkyamuni "Le bouddha voit tout". Fourreau (étui) en bois et peau de requin naturel verni, "galuchat à petits grains", épée du Sud de la Chine. Lame rigide. Lame droite, à doubles tranchants avec les sept points en laiton incrusté, les sept étoiles "Qi Xing Jian".
C´est une épée rare, Chinoise, qui était utilisée par les pratiquants de Kung-Fu Bouddhiste et adeptes du mouvement spirituel Taoïste.

Authentic Chinese weapons from the 18th century and reproductions from originals.
Private collection.

[kronckew]

Full section of video description translated:
============================

Replica of Han Dynasty Imperial Court Sword "206 BC - 9 AD"
YEN MAO DAO, 19th century.
Chinese classic swords from the myths of the 3 traditional and ancient Dynasties. Private collection of the White Unicorn Kung Fu School.
"A weapon has no destiny, it is the one who uses it who creates one".
The straight sword is a weapon that has been used by Chinese warriors for over 2,500 years. It is the ultimate weapon for any martial arts master or knight. The Chinese sword has a whole mystical and fantastic connotation. Born from the fire of the bowels of the earth, the blades of the swords are all unique.
Since the Ming Dynasty "1369-1644" there are two main kinds of straight swords: the military warrior sword "Wu Jian" and the noble civilian sword "Wen Jian".
On the blade of the Taoist sword are inlaid seven small copper pellets. The sword is named after Qi Xing Jian, or seven-star sword, in memory of the Celestial Emperor and his seven daughters.

1 - Simple dragon and phoenix sword of the sky, Taoist sword of kung fu master, "protector of the sky". Polished steel scabbard. Sword from central China. Semi-flexible blade. Wen Jian.
2 - Sword of Taoist governor, knight of kung fu, the two heavenly dragons It represents ancestral loyalty. Traditional Chinese black lacquered wooden scabbard, central Chinese sword. Rigid blade. Wu Jian.
3 - Sword of Master of Kung fu Buddhist, head of Sâkyamuni Buddha "The Buddha sees everything". Scabbard (case) in wood and natural varnished sharkskin, "small-grained shagreen", sword from southern China. Rigid blade. Straight blade, double-edged with the seven inlaid brass points, the seven stars "Qi Xing Jian".
It is a rare Chinese sword that was used by Buddhist Kung-Fu practitioners and followers of the Taoist spiritual movement.

Authentic Chinese weapons from the 18th century and reproductions from originals.
============================

It doesn't specify which are originals (if any) and which are repos, but the Buddah one's bright work looks suspiciously new. I'm surprised they let them rust near the blade root.

[mariusgmioc]

I have very little knowledge about antique Chinese swords but what I know is that it is extremely, extremely difficult to find genuine antique fighting jian swords.

Even before the rise of Communism in China, old swords were frequently molten and the steel reused, and the majority of extant examples are decorative/tai chi ones from 1900 or later.

On top of that, because of extreme rarity of genuine antique swords, even from the beginning of the 20th century (1900 and later) there was a booming industry of producing "antique" jian swords that ranged in quality from examples that are practically undistinguishable from the originals to phantasy antiquated examples. These swords were aimed not only for the foreign amateurs of exotic souvenirs but also for the internal market, as they were both considered to bring good luck while being symbolic weapons for martial arts practitioners.

[JoeCanada42]

Thank You Kronckew, for the full English translations

and thanks Marius for the info,

Personally the though of a battle weapon wasn't a consideration in the purchase,, finding an old talisman sword was interesting enough. I couldn't see the buddha sword being used in battle. but I did suspect a temple sword or talisman sword that could be old.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I have very little knowledge about antique Chinese swords but what I know is that it is extremely, extremely difficult to find genuine antique fighting jian swords.

Even before the rise of Communism in China, old swords were frequently molten and the steel reused, and the majority of extant examples are decorative/tai chi ones from 1900 or later.

On top of that, because of extreme rarity of genuine antique swords, even from the beginning of the 20th century (1900 and later) there was a booming industry of producing "antique" jian swords that ranged in quality from examples that are practically undistinguishable from the originals to phantasy antiquated examples. These swords were aimed not only for the foreign amateurs of exotic souvenirs but also for the internal market, as they were both considered to bring good luck while being symbolic weapons for martial arts practitioners.

Having handled, researched, and restored many of these "extreme rarity" swords since the 1970s, I must disagree. It's easy to assume from the tons of crappy fakes floating around that the genuine old ones are very rare, but not necessarily so. Many older blades have been remounted, at later periods and even in modern times. Museums such as the Met, and the Peabody-Essex Museum (Salem, MA) have extensive collections of antique Chinese sabers and swords (not all on display, many have to been seen in the depot), so a study of these, and comparison with those seen on the market and in private collections, can give a serious researcher a good idea of what's the real deal, what's BS, and what's been monkeyed with.

And contrary to what you state, it's not all that difficult to distinguish pieces made for the 19th cent. curio trade from those of earlier periods, there are notable qualitative and design differences. If you "have very little knowledge about antique Chinese swords" perhaps this might explain your perception. It's as though I, who have little knowledge or appreciation of keris, would try to venture opinions on what is old and important versus the new stuff being circulated in the contemporary collectors' marketplace.