Jian Sword Buddha

[Philip]

Originally Posted by David

I will admit right up front that i know very little about this type of sword. But from simple observation it is clear to see that the fittings on Joe's Jian are rather poor for anything with legitimate age. We can clearly see the difference between what Joe has posted and the dagger that Robin has posted. And as Robin points out, even in 1900 when he estimates his double dagger from, these were most probably being made for European tastes.
I also agree with Robin that the ray skin looks a bit suspect on Joe's sword. The general quality of the piece seems low. It may be vintage, but i have serious doubts it is genuinely antique. Either way i suspect it's purpose was most probably not as a user, but a wall hanger.

David, you've hit the nail right on the head. No use over-intellectualizing the Buddhistic symbolism, this thing is bogus. The uneven workmanship, the assembly of the hilt (note especially the pommel which simply butts against the end of the grip without having the integral "skirt" that is the counterpart to the ferrule at the forward end), the decorative technique on the blade, I can go on and on. Having collected, dealt in, and restored Chinese swords (and somewhat analogous forms from Korea) for decades, plus examining them in museums both in Asia and the West, I can see too many discrepancies in this piece, which has far more in common with the fakes in Chinese souvenir shops than any of the originals in my experience.

[Kubur]

As mentionned previously, this sword is crudely made, the poor cast and the Buddhist designs, are all signs of a late 20th c., not even a fake, but a Chinese fantasy.

On the other hand, maybe, we might be all wrong and this sword is the sword of Buddha himself... and therefore an invaluable treasure...

[David R]

Do a search on this forum using the word "Jian", you will soon see the problems for your sword. Chinese swords are very bound by tradition, and despite all the variations there are common themes repeated all through their
history.

[CutlassCollector]

For comparison, here is something similar from the Chinese Sword Museum - unfortunately my knowledge is minimal and not much improved by my visit, as almost all text was in Mandarin.
The sword was however captioned in English 'Longquan Sword .Qing Dynasty'

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Kubur

On the other hand, maybe, we might be all wrong and this sword is the sword of Buddha himself... and therefore an invaluable treasure...

Don't we all dream of finding the saber carried by Genghis Cohen?
Dig deep enough on the internet, one of us lucky bums might just find it!

Some years ago, I saw something written by some chap about a jian attributed to Marco Polo (yep, it was really that old!). Don't remember the whole backstory that he presented, something about it possibly being a gift of Kubilai Kahn? I do remember meeting the author at sword shows in the distant path, he took himself very seriously so did not think that his article was penned in jest.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Philip

Don't we all dream of finding the saber carried by Genghis Cohen?
Dig deep enough on the internet, one of us lucky bums might just find it!

Some years ago, I saw something written by some chap about a jian attributed to Marco Polo (yep, it was really that old!). Don't remember the whole backstory that he presented, something about it possibly being a gift of Kubilai Kahn? I do remember meeting the author at sword shows in the distant path, he took himself very seriously so did not think that his article was penned in jest.

Absolute classics Philip!!! Your resounding knowledge on these topics is clearly paralleled by your amazing wit and humor!!! You showed remarkable restraint apparently in your meeting this imaginative author.
Genghis Cohen??? LOL. Wasnt there a Chicago lawyer by that name who spent a lifetime looking for the tomb. Also I think there was an old movie (Boris Karloff?) on the tomb of Genghis Khan?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Philip

Don't we all dream of finding the saber carried by Genghis Cohen?
Dig deep enough on the internet, one of us lucky bums might just find it!
...

There is a fairly high mathematical chance that I am a descendant of this Genghis chap. As such, with that connection, I feel I can say that the chances of this sword being his are less than the chances I will win the European Lottery. And I'm not even entered in it.

Personally, I feel the rust is way too uniform, especially in the 'engraved' bits. I'd expect some on an old sword to have transitioned to the black form of oxide, especially in the grooved parts.

Also, the style of the dragon appears rather odd to me. The 19c chinese 'fake swords for those who travel' industry was well underway in the 19c Qing era. If you could disassemble the grip by unscrewing the pommel, and look at the tang might be revealing.