Lohangi Katti Indian Mace

[DavidFriedman]

Ian, Philip and Jim, thank you for your responses. Jim, your references are amazing, thank you. I have Egertons entry, but did not know of Sinclair’s. I look forward to digging up his references.

I showed the weapon to a friend, who thought it was a fantastic piece. He noted some number (perhaps museum inventory numbers) which my fading eyesight missed. Tomorrow in the light and with the aid of a lens, I will take a picture and post the numbers on the rattan.

I’m wondering if inside of the rattan, if there may be a thin iron rod bridging through the entire length, the top and bottom ferrules, pinned in by pins of indeterminate length. I’m thinking to find a very strong magnet to feel any magnetic pull along the shaft.

Thanks again for all of your help. It will be exciting to study the tribes that were mentioned.

One more thing. I asked a teacher of Indian martial arts about it. He mentioned that, from his understanding, Kaparlik (sp?) skull carrying acolytes of the Shiva tradition (if I understood correctly) used this type of mace/staff. A legend was that these semi-naked spiritual warriors would sneak up on tigers and kill them in their sleep. It sounds to me more a metaphor of courage, stealth and wildness, rather than an actual practice. But I wonder if that is a lead to follow up on as well.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by DavidFriedman

One more thing. I asked a teacher of Indian martial arts about it. He mentioned that, from his understanding, Kaparlik (sp?) skull carrying acolytes of the Shiva tradition (if I understood correctly) used this type of mace/staff. A legend was that these semi-naked spiritual warriors would sneak up on tigers and kill them in their sleep. It sounds to me more a metaphor of courage, stealth and wildness, rather than an actual practice. But I wonder if that is a lead to follow up on as well.

David, I know you have a martial arts background, but please refrain from trying this at your local zoo. Even if the shaft of your mace does have an iron core!

Seriously, the legend makes it a great metaphor. It mirrors the longevity of the tradition of European aristocracy hunting wild boar with spears, from the Middle Ages until recent times as evidenced by countless works of art, and spears of various dates and origins in collections. Indeed, the practice is depicted in Roman art (most notably a dramatically carved marble frieze in the Uffizi Gallery, Florence), and is immortalized in the Greek legend of Meleander and Atalanta killing the Hogzilla-sized Calydonian Boar, as recounted in Ovid's Metamorphoses.

Europe, lacking tigers in its native fauna, found the wild boar a worthy substitute for tenacity, strength, and ferocity. The animal was revered by the ancient Celtic peoples as a symbol of courage (the ancient tribes of Scotland used a war-trumpet modeled after a boar's tusked gaping maw, called a carynx, before they got the hang of bagpipes; its sound was enough to cause some alarm in the ranks of Roman legionaries facing them in the field.) Numerous stone boar statues from prehistoric times have been unearthed in northern Portugal and adjoining Spain, where Celtiberian civilization had a long tenure.

[DavidFriedman]

Hi Philip,
Haha, my martial arts skills extends to being able to enjoy the practice of Chai Tea. Hmm, zoo, I have to get past the video feeds first.

Actually in the Shastar Vidiya martial art of the teacher mentioned. The primary grade of animal style in the sequence, is Wild Boar, a style of unflinching ferocity, without much ability to retreat or any fancy (intelligent?) movements. So interesting that the Wild Boar was revered by the Celts. I’d love to look into that more.

It sounds like the hunting of boars and tigers were heroic rites of passage, of hunter-warriors, equivalent to the slaying of the Minotaur in the labyrinths.

I believe that a Japanese God, Marishi-Ten rides a Wild Boar into battle. Originating from the Buddhist deity Marici.

I’d love to have heard the Boar-Pipes atop the hills of Lairig Gru in the mists.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Philip

David, I know you have a martial arts background, but please refrain from trying this at your local zoo. Even if the shaft of your mace does have an iron core!

Seriously, the legend makes it a great metaphor. It mirrors the longevity of the tradition of European aristocracy hunting wild boar with spears, from the Middle Ages until recent times as evidenced by countless works of art, and spears of various dates and origins in collections. Indeed, the practice is depicted in Roman art (most notably a dramatically carved marble frieze in the Uffizi Gallery, Florence), and is immortalized in the Greek legend of Meleander and Atalanta killing the Hogzilla-sized Calydonian Boar, as recounted in Ovid's Metamorphoses.

Europe, lacking tigers in its native fauna, found the wild boar a worthy substitute for tenacity, strength, and ferocity. The animal was revered by the ancient Celtic peoples as a symbol of courage (the ancient tribes of Scotland used a war-trumpet modeled after a boar's tusked gaping maw, called a carynx, before they got the hang of bagpipes; its sound was enough to cause some alarm in the ranks of Roman legionaries facing them in the field.) Numerous stone boar statues from prehistoric times have been unearthed in northern Portugal and adjoining Spain, where Celtiberian civilization had a long tenure.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Philip

...(the ancient tribes of Scotland used a war-trumpet modeled after a boar's tusked gaping maw, called a carynx, ...

The Celtic world used 'em. Y

Your Music Lesson for the day:

See The Voice of the Carynx

( If a picture is worth a thousand words, a video is worth a few minutes of time )

Another carynx video

To be fair and balanced the Romans had a similar version:

The Cornu


...And now the science

[Philip]

Originally Posted by kronckew

The Celtic world used 'em. Y

To be fair and balanced the Romans had a similar version:

Thanks for the links, carynx has a lot of musical possibilities -- what an otherworldly sound! Both eerie and awe-inspiring. Some years ago I saw a display in a vitrine at the Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh, featuring an excavated and surprisingly intact original, and an exact copy of same made by a notable instrument-maker in country. Unfortunately, there was no audio track for visitors to hear what it sounded like. YouTube is great.

I liked the way the Roman reenactor played Verdi's triumphal march from "Aida" on his cornu. The only improvement might be if the piece was performed on the dynastic Egyptian counterpart, in keeping with the theme of the opera.

The Romans had their share of brass instruments for military use: the circular cornu, the long straight tuba (similar concept as the much larger Tibetan ones blown at temple ceremonies), the buccina, and the lituus which was shorter and had a single bend looking like a tobacco-pipe. None of these had zoomorphic bells or mouths like the carynx. Even though the boar was an important symbol seen on military regalia such a legion standards.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by DavidFriedman

Ian, Philip and Jim, thank you for your responses. Jim, your references are amazing, thank you. I have Egertons entry, but did not know of Sinclair’s. I look forward to digging up his references.

I showed the weapon to a friend, who thought it was a fantastic piece. He noted some number (perhaps museum inventory numbers) which my fading eyesight missed. Tomorrow in the light and with the aid of a lens, I will take a picture and post the numbers on the rattan.

I’m wondering if inside of the rattan, if there may be a thin iron rod bridging through the entire length, the top and bottom ferrules, pinned in by pins of indeterminate length. I’m thinking to find a very strong magnet to feel any magnetic pull along the shaft.

Thanks again for all of your help. It will be exciting to study the tribes that were mentioned.

One more thing. I asked a teacher of Indian martial arts about it. He mentioned that, from his understanding, Kaparlik (sp?) skull carrying acolytes of the Shiva tradition (if I understood correctly) used this type of mace/staff. A legend was that these semi-naked spiritual warriors would sneak up on tigers and kill them in their sleep. It sounds to me more a metaphor of courage, stealth and wildness, rather than an actual practice. But I wonder if that is a lead to follow up on as well.

Glad I could add to the entries with the guys here, I excerpted all the material from Sinclair which is simply a brief article in that periodical, and I had a photocopy from the British Museum from about 20 yrs ago.
It does seem possible that the weapon in Egerton is the same as the one in V&A holdings as its provenance is noted as Satara, as noted in his reference.
It is a shame that so much has been put into storage at V& A since Tony North passed .

There is a great deal of 'lore' on many Indian weapons, as well as many of the esoteric tribal groups, religious ascetics and cults. One such group was the 'thuggee' (even mentioned in the 30's film "Gunga Din") who were notorious killers and robbers who had a mysterious and unique axe they used.

Much of this material can be found (with notable sleuthing) in the volumes of adventure, travel literature of the early to mid 20th c. but not easy to locate. Still, thats the challenge!!!! '...the games's afoot!!!'.

[DavidFriedman]

Thanks again Jim for providing such wonderful information. Definitely it’s putting me in a good direction to follow sleuthing for the origins and use of this thugee bonker.

I have a book I read half of regarding the exploits of a British journalist who was trying to track down the last king of the Thugees, a killer bandit who claimed to be some kind of Robin Hood with a Mahakala twist. I’ll see if I can find the title. I had heard that the Thugees loved to strangle their victims with a wipe/cloth that had metal weights of some kind on either end. They would whip the weighted sole/cloth around the victims neck and strangle them. The weight allowed the rope to spin around the neck quickly and by suprise.

I am very interested in finding out more about the ancient martial traditions of the Indian tribal, ethnic and spiritual sub groups. Especially the skull bearing Kaparlikas.

Unique axe, I’m curious what kind of axe the Thugees used. Any idea as to its form?

Yes, much sleuthing to be done, I’m looking forward to wild tales, and hope to share anything of significance if something unorthodox comes to light.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Glad I could add to the entries with the guys here, I excerpted all the material from Sinclair which is simply a brief article in that periodical, and I had a photocopy from the British Museum from about 20 yrs ago.
It does seem possible that the weapon in Egerton is the same as the one in V&A holdings as its provenance is noted as Satara, as noted in his reference.
It is a shame that so much has been put into storage at V& A since Tony North passed .

There is a great deal of 'lore' on many Indian weapons, as well as many of the esoteric tribal groups, religious ascetics and cults. One such group was the 'thuggee' (even mentioned in the 30's film "Gunga Din") who were notorious killers and robbers who had a mysterious and unique axe they used.

Much of this material can be found (with notable sleuthing) in the volumes of adventure, travel literature of the early to mid 20th c. but not easy to locate. Still, thats the challenge!!!! '...the games's afoot!!!'.