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Old 28th March 2021, 07:32 PM   #1
fernando
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Hello Cel7,
Let us move this topic to the Ethno forum, where your 20th century klewang is more within scope; and where the vastest majority of these weapons is discussed. Hopefully the members there will have a say about your example .
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Old 28th March 2021, 11:23 PM   #2
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I wonder if it is indeed a fake; the philips head screws are a jarring departure as is the almost home made looking guard. The fuller is as you say, very very shallow.
Aren't these swords climbing in price nowadays?

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Old 29th March 2021, 01:33 AM   #3
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The use of Philips head screws is very unusual. The narrower fuller is seen also on some Lilley Ames blades made under contract for the KNIL. Another minor anomaly is the slightly upturned tip (slightly more than usual I think) not mentioned yet.

Does the edge grind vary in width? That is a feature of all the MILSCO blades I have seen.

If it is a fake, and an old one at that, why make a fake of something that was sold for low prices in surplus stores in the 1950s? Not worth the faker's time and effort.
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Old 29th March 2021, 02:30 AM   #4
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Could the handles be a replacement? When I was a kid I would buy surplus bayonets for almost nothing and replace the handles that had sat in the cosmoline till they crumbled or became mush.
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Old 29th March 2021, 02:51 AM   #5
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Just a reminder that these were NOT the 1917 USN Naval Cutlass. (A 'real' USN 1917 is shown below on a red background) The ricasso was stamped USN rather than MILSCO(or HEMBRUG), and was actually mfg. by the USN themselves in unknown numbers. And never issued.

The klewangy ones were produced to the original Dutch blueprints By Hembrug, Milsco, AND Solingen (Like mine).

The USN bought their MILSCOs for use by the Marines, in the Pacific, as shown below. A Marine having a rest. There are two things a soldier does whenever he has the smallest chance, Eat, and Sleep, not necessarily in that order. (Not counting the disposal of waste products from eating. Interesting He is carrying not only his klewang, but a (possibly pre-)ww1 era sword bayonet for his Springfield rifle. No little stubby one for this Marine!

Cold Steel produces a replica with slotted head scale screws and a polished brass scabbard throat piece, Originals appear to all be blackened. They apparently usually had brown leather scabbards, not sure about Milsco ones tho. I would not put it past CS to have also used Phillips head ones. Their offering also was not initially distal tapered. The originals appear to have a much wider forged fuller too. The CS one has a narrower one that looks ground in. The pommel screw on my original is also slotted, but much wider and shallower. The Topic one may have been replaced or made that way by whomever made it. The Guard looks damaged and bent, leaving a wedge shaped gap at the pommel. As noted there is somethging wrong about the clipped point. To me it looks rather thick and possibly because it is not a distal tapered blade.

See also USN 1917 Cutlass

and/or
USN Cutlasses and Dutch Klewangs

(the M1898 Solingen one with the black leather lanyard on that site is mine )

They reference that the US Milsco ones were made with Bakelite grips, unlike the European made ones!
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Old 29th March 2021, 05:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
The use of Philips head screws is very unusual. The narrower fuller is seen also on some Lilley Ames blades made under contract for the KNIL. Another minor anomaly is the slightly upturned tip (slightly more than usual I think) not mentioned yet.

Does the edge grind vary in width? That is a feature of all the MILSCO blades I have seen.

If it is a fake, and an old one at that, why make a fake of something that was sold for low prices in surplus stores in the 1950s? Not worth the faker's time and effort.
Here's another completed auction, shallow fuller philips head screws looks like a match.
https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/3329...condition.html
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Old 29th March 2021, 09:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Here's another completed auction, shallow fuller philips head screws looks like a match.
https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/3329...condition.html
Thank you for your answers!

Rick, that is indeed a match!

It seems to be factory made after all. Could it have been a simplification of the process at Milsco?!
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Old 29th March 2021, 11:33 AM   #8
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Here's another one. Unfortunately the photo has no discription.
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Old 29th March 2021, 11:53 AM   #9
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Odd location, So. Africa.
I never trust Auctioneer descriptions. I'm surprised they didn't add 'Possibly Zulu?' o 'encourage' the bidders. We can agree it was probably made wherever the OP's was. Could have just used whatever screws were at hand.Guard securing nut on the pommel again looks odd.

p.s.- They were ALL factory made, even the chinese copies.
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