Curious marriage: a Kard

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I understand very well what Saracen has in mind.

Saracen, the throat is called the locket and it is common in most of scabbards in the world.

These two Indian karuds have the same system and a curved tip/chape.

Problem, they are not Ottoman daggers!

Thank you Kubur, correct English terminology is very important for me now.
But I'm talking specifically about the all-metal Ottoman scabbard and not about any others.
A removable locket in an all-metal Ottoman scabbard is needed in order to insert wooden inserts into them, which hold the blade inside.
On the discussed scabbard, the locket is made separately in the same Ottoman tradition, I think this also confirms their Ottoman origin.
Only here the Lak master had a problem: for the Lak style engraving , thick silver was needed and the locket had to be fastened butt-to-butt, not overlap.
I have not seen the removable locket on the all-metal scabbard of the Central Asian pchak. In addition, the scabbard of the Central Asian pchak is much wider and more massive.
The scabbard in question is narrow and elegant, in Ottoman style. Definitely this is an Ottoman scabbard.

[Saracen]

For comparison with the discussed scabbard: Ottoman kard

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Saracen

For comparison with the discussed scabbard: Ottoman kard

Thanks for the example.
It seems in childhood such a comparison was called "find 10 differences".
The only thing in common between these scabbards is that they are made of silver ...

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Thanks for the example.
It seems in childhood such a comparison was called "find 10 differences".
The only thing in common between these scabbards is that they are made of silver ...

mahratt, are you offended?
Why?
This is my opinion.
Do you not be offended if it does not correspond your opinion.
Nobody is obliged to agree with you.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Saracen

mahratt, are you offended?
Why?
This is my opinion.
Do you not be offended if it does not correspond your opinion.
Nobody is obliged to agree with you.

I take no offence. Moreover, I am not offended by certain participants. It's just that if people write nonsense because of their lack of knowledge, I point it out)))

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by mahratt

I take no offence. Moreover, I am not offended by certain participants. It's just that if people write nonsense because of their lack of knowledge, I point it out)))

Little text, many pictures, among them not a single Central Asian knife in a Dagestan scabbart.
One half of the information you do not comprehend, from that the second seems like nonsense.
This is because you are more concerned with yourself than with the issues that are considered here.
But in pictures, you always become active ).
Yes, with you stupid, but always funny))

Originally Posted by mahratt

P.S. The differences between the scabbard of the Turkish knife that you showed and the scabbard of the author of the topic were seen by everyone except you and Ariel.

No matter how much you shout "sugar", your mouth will not become sweeter ))


PS: We are talking about the scabbard, not about the knives that are associated with them or not.
And this Central Asian scabbards have very little to do with the scabbard in question.
Just don't say that this simple thought has escaped you again.


I apologize to everyone for this development of the topic.

[Battara]

Folks I am going to make one warning that that's it.

We cannot get personal here on this thread of forum.

If I see this again, the offender(s) will be edited out and the punishment will be severe.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Thanks for the example.
It seems in childhood such a comparison was called "find 10 differences".
The only thing in common between these scabbards is that they are made of silver ...

Yes, it's hopeless and after the agressive comments posted I agree with Battara about his warning

and it's better for you to not waste your precious time.

Take care my friend.

Kubur

[Saracen]

What's the matter, Kubur?
A simple question without emotion: what are the signs that allow the scabbard to be attributed to the Central Asian one? Besides to the Dagestan ornament.
It seems to me that you misunderstood something again. Also like in your post 30

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Saracen

I have not seen the removable locket on the all-metal scabbard of the Central Asian pchak. In addition, the scabbard of the Central Asian pchak is much wider and more massive.
The scabbard in question is narrow and elegant, in Ottoman style. Definitely this is an Ottoman scabbard.

The scabbard that you demonstrate in the topic belongs to the pchak knives that were made in the USSR. As I wrote above, they differed in shape from the old samples of this type of knives. Thank you for posting the Central Asian pchak from the Artzi website. Due to this, it can be seen that the proportions of the blades of the old Central Asian and Turkish pchak are practically the same. The scabbard that was sold as a set for this pchak is absolutely not traditional for the late 19th and early 20th centuries and was probably made at a later time.

For example, several old pchak knives from Central Asia with authentic scabbards. Surprisingly, they are not all broad.

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Thank you for posting the Central Asian pchak from the Artzi website. Due to this, it can be seen that the proportions of the blades of the old Central Asian and Turkish pchak are practically the same. The scabbard that was sold as a set for this pchak is absolutely not traditional for the late 19th and early 20th centuries and was probably made at a later time.

"Due to this, it can be seen that the proportions of the blades of the old Central Asian and Turkish pchak are practically the same."
???!!!!! You should still look for 10 differences.

I'm glad you liked it. Here's three another.

PS: In my message, besides pictures, there were some letters.

[ariel]

Apologize for posting an almost identical message twice: my iPad kept my first one “unpublished” for a long time and I assumed it was lost. That was the reason for the second one. And suddenly.....:-)

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Saracen

"Due to this, it can be seen that the proportions of the blades of the old Central Asian and Turkish pchak are practically the same."
???!!!!! You should still look for 10 differences.

I'm glad you liked it. Here's three another.

PS: In my message, besides pictures, there were some letters.

The first knife from the topic is in Indian scabbard, not in Central Asian ones. In the other two examples, you can observe the scabbard from large Central Asian knives that were matched to small Central Asian knives that did not have a scabbard. Sometimes it is worth studying objects not only by those presented on the websites of antiques dealers, but also by museum collections. This will keep you from making stupid mistakes.

P.S. The differences between the scabbard of the Turkish knife that you showed and the scabbard of the author of the topic were seen by everyone except you and Ariel.