African cuirass?

fernando · 5th March 2021, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

... It has also been stated that this item has been glued to the cuirass, which makes sense to me as glues have been known for centuries such as the ones used by the Mongolians and the Ottomans on their compound bows...

Not that this is a vital factor but, no glue was used to fix the hide to the chest piece, but rivets; apparently the male/female style as used in Europe (#11), which does not mean they couldn't be acquired in Africa. If i am correct, the glue possibility was mentioned to have possibly used to fill those two "missing something" holes, but Panoleon soon described the material as "some sort of molten metal. Probably lead" (#16#).
I see the point in Europeans gifting light weight cuirasses to local leaders in the late nineties but, by own historical influence, i only tended to think of gifts given (and swaped) during a much earlier period (Congo, Dahome), when heavy weight cuirasses (and swords) were of contemporary use.

Jim McDougall · 5th March 2021, 05:56 PM

As always, great points and observations, and a wonderfully lively discussion which I am enjoying very much.
It is true, this concerns hypotheticals, which is the texture of a discussion seeking evidence, possibilities and plausibility in lieu of provenance and documentation.
The term 'fantasy' is perhaps not best applied for an item not yet resolved as to its disposition in use, ceremonial, ritual, traditional etc. Regalia, especially in many African contexts, may be regarded as fanciful, but temporally significant to native peoples.

I still hold to my idea that this is a refurbished regalia cuirass (of hide) being used traditionally in one of West Africa's secret society groups, most likely the crocodile oriented one but could be other. Its being quite old, and coupled with an iron backing could be for many reasons, but durability seems most pragmatic.
The apotropaic properties are something we cannot address with certainty, but we know the folk reliions in West Africa deeply believed in such things.

fernando · 6th March 2021, 11:42 AM

Panoleon, can you tell us from what part of the world you got your cuirass from ?

5th March 2021, 05:56 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	As always, great points and observations, and a wonderfully lively discussion which I am enjoying very much. It is true, this concerns hypotheticals, which is the texture of a discussion seeking evidence, possibilities and plausibility in lieu of provenance and documentation. The term 'fantasy' is perhaps not best applied for an item not yet resolved as to its disposition in use, ceremonial, ritual, traditional etc. Regalia, especially in many African contexts, may be regarded as fanciful, but temporally significant to native peoples. I still hold to my idea that this is a refurbished regalia cuirass (of hide) being used traditionally in one of West Africa's secret society groups, most likely the crocodile oriented one but could be other. Its being quite old, and coupled with an iron backing could be for many reasons, but durability seems most pragmatic. The apotropaic properties are something we cannot address with certainty, but we know the folk reliions in West Africa deeply believed in such things.

6th March 2021, 11:42 AM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Panoleon, can you tell us from what part of the world you got your cuirass from ?