"Eastern Sword" Szabla for comments

Norman McCormick · 27th February 2021, 05:13 PM

Hi Chris,
I have to agree with Philip as to the question marks re these swords. The fittings do not sit well with me and the 'antiqued' brass work reminds me of the fittings on so called 'antique' Indian furniture sold in some shops here in the U.K. The blades do not have the normal Indian type ricasso but I suppose that feature could have been ground out. I really like the shape and look of the blades regardless of origin but as I said the leatherwork and the furniture just don't look right.
My Regards,
Norman.

mariusgmioc · 28th February 2021, 09:22 PM

The hilts are very crudely made and assembly is very sloppy.
The way the disproportioned hilt of the second sword is riveted is appalling, with the rivets protruding like bad jokes.

In my opinion they are modern, low end, wall-hangers/tourist stuff/fakes (albeit the blades might be functional).

Regarding the "aging" of the second sword... well... keep a brand new sword unoiled for a couple of years in damp environment and you will get that "aging."

I hope you didn't pay much for them...

Mefidk · 1st March 2021, 02:34 PM

Thanks for the replies. I agree that the hilts on both of these are a long way from original. I'm not sure I would say modern or tourist (at least they have been together for some time), but 20th C I would guess.
The blades are probably a different matter. These are really heavy duty blades, and I would say high quality. It would be really interesting to figure out the origin of these. My current feeling is that these come from a heavy duty blade such as a dussage. I attached a couple of possible sources e.g. Sinclair Sabre. This type of blade came from Styria and surrounds, but was based on Turkish types. I don't know where these might have travelled afterwards, and am not aware of the possible Indian sources (although Europe to India is also possible I assume unlikely).
Regarding the Indian blade idea I would say though that if a ricasso was originally on the blade then it was removed with a great deal more expert skill than was used to make and fit the rest of the furniture. If this was the case it is even more a pity since there would be no way to return the blade to its original Indian state either.

Marius - no fears, in the end I paid nothing for them, having returned them to the auction house today. But it would still be interesting to nail where the blades came from if possible.

awdaniec666 · 17th December 2021, 01:52 PM

Hey Mefidk,
if you´re still interested in thoughts about your sabers I could see what I can do for you.
I´d need the following information for both objects:

- Pictures of the back of the "hilt-near-part"/ricasso
- Pictures "into the hilt"/between hilt and blade
- Overall lenght, blade lenght, thickness at hilt, Point of balance (!!!), blade broadeness at hilt and near the hammer (proximal end of false edge/yelmen/ feather); all measured in a straight line. blade lenght from middle of the hilt to the tip
- balancing on your finger: does it stay vertical or turn on its flat side (horizontal)?
- Karabela: Pictures on the back of the grip (between the wooden shells)

28th February 2021, 09:22 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	The hilts are very crudely made and assembly is very sloppy. The way the disproportioned hilt of the second sword is riveted is appalling, with the rivets protruding like bad jokes. In my opinion they are modern, low end, wall-hangers/tourist stuff/fakes (albeit the blades might be functional). Regarding the "aging" of the second sword... well... keep a brand new sword unoiled for a couple of years in damp environment and you will get that "aging." I hope you didn't pay much for them... Last edited by mariusgmioc; 1st March 2021 at 08:52 AM.

1st March 2021, 02:34 PM	#3
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thanks for the replies. I agree that the hilts on both of these are a long way from original. I'm not sure I would say modern or tourist (at least they have been together for some time), but 20th C I would guess. The blades are probably a different matter. These are really heavy duty blades, and I would say high quality. It would be really interesting to figure out the origin of these. My current feeling is that these come from a heavy duty blade such as a dussage. I attached a couple of possible sources e.g. Sinclair Sabre. This type of blade came from Styria and surrounds, but was based on Turkish types. I don't know where these might have travelled afterwards, and am not aware of the possible Indian sources (although Europe to India is also possible I assume unlikely). Regarding the Indian blade idea I would say though that if a ricasso was originally on the blade then it was removed with a great deal more expert skill than was used to make and fit the rest of the furniture. If this was the case it is even more a pity since there would be no way to return the blade to its original Indian state either. Marius - no fears, in the end I paid nothing for them, having returned them to the auction house today. But it would still be interesting to nail where the blades came from if possible. Attached Images Last edited by Mefidk; 1st March 2021 at 03:45 PM.

27th February 2021, 05:13 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Hi Chris, I have to agree with Philip as to the question marks re these swords. The fittings do not sit well with me and the 'antiqued' brass work reminds me of the fittings on so called 'antique' Indian furniture sold in some shops here in the U.K. The blades do not have the normal Indian type ricasso but I suppose that feature could have been ground out. I really like the shape and look of the blades regardless of origin but as I said the leatherwork and the furniture just don't look right. My Regards, Norman.

17th December 2021, 01:52 PM	#4
awdaniec666 Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: Central Europe Posts: 174	Hey Mefidk, if you´re still interested in thoughts about your sabers I could see what I can do for you. I´d need the following information for both objects: - Pictures of the back of the "hilt-near-part"/ricasso - Pictures "into the hilt"/between hilt and blade - Overall lenght, blade lenght, thickness at hilt, Point of balance (!!!), blade broadeness at hilt and near the hammer (proximal end of false edge/yelmen/ feather); all measured in a straight line. blade lenght from middle of the hilt to the tip - balancing on your finger: does it stay vertical or turn on its flat side (horizontal)? - Karabela: Pictures on the back of the grip (between the wooden shells)