African sword, Unusual Handle, Akokonan? or?

Tim Simmons · 25th February 2021, 02:09 PM

A very interesting piece, I have been searching all the books I have for anything similar but have found nothing. However I could add some more speculation. The blade looks like one of those long arm knife blade but I do not think it is or related to them. The picture {panga na visu. Kurzwaffen, geschmiedete Kultgegenstande und Schilde aus Afrika. Manfred A Zirngibl & Alexander Kubetz. Publisher HePelo Verlag 2009} I post here might be a pointer. The scabbard has the look and construction of weapons from the Cameroon and western borders. The hilts in the picture could be related and perhaps your piece maybe some variant as most often with African pieces you are always looking at large areas of peoples with much crossover of culture and language. Worth a look anyway.

Duccio · 25th February 2021, 05:59 PM

...every morning in Africa, as soon as the sun rises, a blacksmith finds a way to make a mysterious sword, for the sole purpose of driving some Western collectors crazy ...

JoeCanada42 · 26th February 2021, 01:10 AM

Shayde78 thank you for your support, id like to hear what others say about my interpretation of the roosters influence on weapons. there is still a lot I have to say about it...

Tim Simmons, Thank you for taking the time to look for similar pieces,
i don't feel there is much similar between the Tula and my sword, yes the Tula and my sword both look like Celtic antenna swords, but I don't feel any true connections.

Duccio, I think you comment is a little foolish, do the blacksmiths use antique scabbards every day, also to drive the westerners crazy.
I could easily say everyday in Africa the sun rises, a rooster calls, a blacksmith who is regarded in Africa as a magician works the elements, and using the skills of his ancestors, builds a piece with real soul and magical intent without a concern for the westerner who is blind to a world of magic. and I can say every day in the west a foolish person throws out an antique relic, or a cultural treasure, because they assume stuff coming from other countries are only made to fool a westerner ..,
lets not generalize, do you feel what you said is particular to my sword, you could be specific. you could explain why? something specific about the sword or theory?, or because you have a negative view of African blacksmiths?, or because you haven't seen this before? your comment kind of detracts and belittles, instead of disagreeing.

Duccio · 26th February 2021, 09:04 AM

My comment was meant to be a joke, from a poor collector of African blades who would like to get to know that world in depth but who occasionally has to collide with mysterious objects, such as the one you present here.
I was referring to a famous African proverb, quoted by Christopher McDougall:
“Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up, it knows it must outrun the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the slowest gazelle, or it will starve. It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

I assure you that I had no intention of making fun of anyone, much less the African blacksmiths, on the contrary I intended to emphasize the vastness and depth of a world whose understanding, just as Westerners, often eludes us completely.
I repeat, I did not mean to offend anyone; if it did not, I deeply apologize.

JoeCanada42 · 26th February 2021, 01:30 PM

Duccio sorry if I jumped to conclusions. It is not possible to tell if a comment is intended as a joke.. Thank you for clarifying. And for Sharing the Proverb.

Duccio · 26th February 2021, 01:41 PM

No problem, I'm glad that everything is cleared up.
Believe me, I take these objects and those who manufacture them very seriously, but sometimes I feel frustrated, to verify the depth of my ignorance ... and then I cheer myself up with a joke ...
Best wishes.

shayde78 · 26th February 2021, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeCanada42

Duccio sorry if I jumped to conclusions. It is not possible to tell if a comment is intended as a joke.. Thank you for clarifying. And for Sharing the Proverb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duccio

No problem, I'm glad that everything is cleared up.
Believe me, I take these objects and those who manufacture them very seriously, but sometimes I feel frustrated, to verify the depth of my ignorance ... and then I cheer myself up with a joke ...
Best wishes.

For what it is worth, I wanted to commend you both for taking the time to 1) address a perceived insult (not always easy to do), 2) respond to the person who felt they were being disrespected (also not always easy to do, 3) doing all this in a respectful manner, and 4) being willing to hear the other person's side of things and come to a resolution. It doesn't always happen, and I felt compelled to acknowledge that the two of you did it well. This is the kind of discourse I have come to expect from this forum (and seems increasingly rare elsewhere), but I never want to take it for granted, so well done to both of you.

JoeCanada42 · 27th February 2021, 04:20 PM

shayde 78 thank you for the commendations, this forum has class, I will try not to mess it up too much,

25th February 2021, 02:09 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	A very interesting piece, I have been searching all the books I have for anything similar but have found nothing. However I could add some more speculation. The blade looks like one of those long arm knife blade but I do not think it is or related to them. The picture {panga na visu. Kurzwaffen, geschmiedete Kultgegenstande und Schilde aus Afrika. Manfred A Zirngibl & Alexander Kubetz. Publisher HePelo Verlag 2009} I post here might be a pointer. The scabbard has the look and construction of weapons from the Cameroon and western borders. The hilts in the picture could be related and perhaps your piece maybe some variant as most often with African pieces you are always looking at large areas of peoples with much crossover of culture and language. Worth a look anyway. Attached Images

25th February 2021, 05:59 PM	#2
Duccio Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Florence, Italy Posts: 64	...every morning in Africa, as soon as the sun rises, a blacksmith finds a way to make a mysterious sword, for the sole purpose of driving some Western collectors crazy ...

26th February 2021, 01:10 AM	#3
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Shayde78 thank you for your support, id like to hear what others say about my interpretation of the roosters influence on weapons. there is still a lot I have to say about it... Tim Simmons, Thank you for taking the time to look for similar pieces, i don't feel there is much similar between the Tula and my sword, yes the Tula and my sword both look like Celtic antenna swords, but I don't feel any true connections. Duccio, I think you comment is a little foolish, do the blacksmiths use antique scabbards every day, also to drive the westerners crazy. I could easily say everyday in Africa the sun rises, a rooster calls, a blacksmith who is regarded in Africa as a magician works the elements, and using the skills of his ancestors, builds a piece with real soul and magical intent without a concern for the westerner who is blind to a world of magic. and I can say every day in the west a foolish person throws out an antique relic, or a cultural treasure, because they assume stuff coming from other countries are only made to fool a westerner .., lets not generalize, do you feel what you said is particular to my sword, you could be specific. you could explain why? something specific about the sword or theory?, or because you have a negative view of African blacksmiths?, or because you haven't seen this before? your comment kind of detracts and belittles, instead of disagreeing.

26th February 2021, 09:04 AM	#4
Duccio Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Florence, Italy Posts: 64	My comment was meant to be a joke, from a poor collector of African blades who would like to get to know that world in depth but who occasionally has to collide with mysterious objects, such as the one you present here. I was referring to a famous African proverb, quoted by Christopher McDougall: “Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up, it knows it must outrun the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the slowest gazelle, or it will starve. It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running. I assure you that I had no intention of making fun of anyone, much less the African blacksmiths, on the contrary I intended to emphasize the vastness and depth of a world whose understanding, just as Westerners, often eludes us completely. I repeat, I did not mean to offend anyone; if it did not, I deeply apologize.

26th February 2021, 01:30 PM	#5
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Duccio sorry if I jumped to conclusions. It is not possible to tell if a comment is intended as a joke.. Thank you for clarifying. And for Sharing the Proverb.

26th February 2021, 01:41 PM	#6
Duccio Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Florence, Italy Posts: 64	No problem, I'm glad that everything is cleared up. Believe me, I take these objects and those who manufacture them very seriously, but sometimes I feel frustrated, to verify the depth of my ignorance ... and then I cheer myself up with a joke ... Best wishes.

27th February 2021, 04:20 PM	#8
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	shayde 78 thank you for the commendations, this forum has class, I will try not to mess it up too much,