Philippene/Malay (?) kris with naga

[Klop]

Hi David,

Indeed, I won't be sending this piece anywhere but at least it needs a handle. A sheath is of secundary importance to me (might be relatively simple just like shirasaya) but I always like to have a decent grip to hold a blade.

It won't be soon but I think I can produce something that would do the job, allthough I doubt I can find the lovely original striped wood. Second best would be a piece of teak which is easy to source - table leg .

Kind regards,
Eric.

[Sajen]

Hello Eric,

Have a look to this old thread, the naga could be a good hint from where your blade coming: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=naga+malay

I would guess that your blade is from Malay origin.

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

Have a look to this old thread, the naga could be a good hint from where your blade coming: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=naga+malay

I would guess that your blade is from Malay origin.

I already posted a link in posting #8...

We need to be very careful though: I don't believe this initial classification can be taken for granted yet - more research is certainly needed IMVHO!

However, if we go with the tentative overview presented in that linked thread, I don't think that the naga on this kris supports any Melayu origin!

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

I already posted a link in posting #8...

Hello Kai,

Sorry, I have overlooked this.

Originally Posted by kai

We need to be very careful though: I don't believe this initial classification can be taken for granted yet - more research is certainly needed IMVHO!

For sure, full agreement! But it seems that we have had the same thread in mind when we looked to Eric's pictures. I only want to point out the direction Eric should search.

Originally Posted by kai

However, if we go with the tentative overview presented in that linked thread, I don't think that the naga on this kris supports any Melayu origin!

I haven't compared, it's not my own blade. But I haven't ruled out a Bugis origin, the pamor could be a hint.
It's a more as unusual blade, also at this point I agree with you completely but my feeling refuses to accept a recent manufacture for this blade, otherwise I would agree with you. Such a black corrosion I see by the first pictures coming not in a few years.

Regards,
Detlef

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

No worries, Detlef!

I haven't compared, it's not my own blade. But I haven't ruled out a Bugis origin, the pamor could be a hint.

IMHO, this pamor does not look like what we usually see coming out of Sulawesi; and, if anything, keris sundang are extremely rare...

It's a more as unusual blade, also at this point I agree with you completely but my feeling refuses to accept a recent manufacture for this blade, otherwise I would agree with you. Such a black corrosion I see by the first pictures coming not in a few years.

I'd love to be proven wrong! Collectors sometimes tend to be a bit too paranoid...

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Klop

Indeed, I won't be sending this piece anywhere but at least it needs a handle. A sheath is of secundary importance to me (might be relatively simple just like shirasaya) but I always like to have a decent grip to hold a blade.

Hello Eric,

Like said, I guess a Malay or Bugis origin for your blade, look for examples and their handles here at old threads and elsewhere that you know how a handle has to look. It will be extremely difficult to find an old/antique handle but I know that you can find very well carved new handle in Malaysia. Just search a little bit, you can also use the swap forum for your search. A simple Malay scabbard can get crafted from someone who has some skills if wanted.
Attached some pictures for inspiration, taken from old threads.

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

Like said, I guess a Malay or Bugis origin for your blade, look for examples and their handles here at old threads and elsewhere that you know how a handle has to look. It will be extremely difficult to find an old/antique handle but I know that you can find very well carved new handle in Malaysia. Just search a little bit, you can also use the swap forum for your search. A simple Malay scabbard can get crafted from someone who has some skills if wanted.
Attached some pictures for inspiration, taken from old threads.

Let's keep my Bugis keris sundang (ex Kai Wee's collection) out of this - it's a completely different beast!

What really makes me doubt any Melayu origin is the bold pamor and it's very unusual pattern (including near the tip): If anything, pattern-welded keris sundang from the Malay peninsula as well as Sumatra are extremely rare (even more so than in Bangsa Moro kris blades)!

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Eric,

Thanks for your additional pics!

I'm afraid there are no genuine keris sundang originating from Madurese culture. Blades that probably might have been crafted by entrepreneuring Madurese bladesmiths appear to be a fairly recent phenomenon. From my observations, it seems that native styles (typical for Madura/Jawa) tend to shine through with these blades.

I believe this piece has been artificially aged: There is a considerable difference of surface corrosion and damage between the tip and the base of the blade (as well as the pesi).

I already mentioned the weird pamor and the carved naga both of which do not really vibe well with a traditional Melayu origin IMHO.

Also the features at the base of the blade do not seem to be compatible with a traditional Melayu origin for me.

Thus, there seem to be way too many red flags with this piece. Please don't see it as a final verdict though: More info gained from a detailed analysis (staining, etc.) may help to gain more insights.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Let's keep my Bugis keris sundang (ex Kai Wee's collection) out of this - it's a completely different beast!

Hello Kai,

Congrats, nice addition! When you ....... I've posted this one because I don't rule out a Bugis influenced origin for Eric's blade.

Originally Posted by kai

What really makes me doubt any Melayu origin is the bold pamor and it's very unusual pattern (including near the tip): If anything, pattern-welded keris sundang from the Malay peninsula as well as Sumatra are extremely rare (even more so than in Bangsa Moro kris blades)!

Yes, again agreement with you, another fact which points to a possible Bugis origin.

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

Congrats, nice addition! When you .......

Thanks! Sure, I will keep you in mind...

I'm really looking forward to seeing more info on Eric's blade, especially from staining!

Regards,
Kai