How old is this Tulwar?

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2021, 04:38 PM

To reiterate more on the case for the classification of tulwars attempting to establish regional characteristics, much of which was popularized by Dr. G.Pant in "Indian Arms & Armor" (1980):
The impression is that the hilt forms reflect locally favored types which he names and illustrates, however, as can be seen by a map of the huge state of Rajasthan. most of these terms come from places in the geographic boundaries of that state.

The silver inlay which appears to remain on this hilt suggests a style of inlay which was created in the Bidri regions of Rajasthan. The style was widely copied and diffused to the point some arms were classified 'Bidri'.

The term 'katti' is a term for knife (if I recall) in the Kanada language used iin western India by Coorg's.
The term 'Sirohi' is often regarding the highly favored blades from this region for quality, but cannot be defined by any particular characteristic I know of.

Other terms like Mewari, Udapuri (actually same region) reflect an industrial center in Rajasthan where considerable production of hilts and swords took place.

To classify tulwars by ethicity or cultural denominators is equally difficult as Rajputs, Sikhs, Jains and Mughals all used them without particular favor to any one of these hilt styles. Blades were constantly traded, and diffused throughout sword hilting centers and arsenals.

Bikaner (in Rajasthan) is one of the few arsenals whose markings are well established on blades (stippled letters or numbers), and where huge volume of Indian arms have been found.

Tulwars were used of course in Sind to the north,northeast, in Punjab (traditional domain of the Sikhs)north, and in Lucknow, Delhi and other key locations of the Mughal empire to north, northeast.
The Rajputs were primarily situated in Rajasthan.

So decoration and certain motif and styling along with certain hilt elements can be used in some degree with tulwar identification, much as these are considered in degree for period, remembering that these hilts typically may have been produced somewhere in the vast Rajasthan region.

Naturally these are simply my own overviews from my own experience in the study of these, and I am certain there are likely different views as well as probably errors, so I welcome any input concerning my comments.

Gonzoadler · 31st January 2021, 07:51 PM

@Jim McDougall
Unfortunately I have no additions to your comments, but they are really interesting and informative.

Do you can recommend some literature concerning Indian arms?

mahratt · 1st February 2021, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzoadler

@Jim McDougall
Unfortunately I have no additions to your comments, but they are really interesting and informative.

Do you can recommend some literature concerning Indian arms?

Hello. Let me answer a little earlier than Jim.
Here are the books that I think you will find interesting:
The Indian Sword, by Philip S. Rawson

Hindu Arms and Ritual: Arms and Armour from India 1400-1865. By Robert Elgood
Arms and Armour at the Jaipur Court: The Royal Collection. By Robert Elgood
Rajput Arms and Armour: The Rathores and Their Armoury at Jodhpur Fort. By Robert Elgood
Here you can find information about these books:
http://robertelgood.co.uk/publications.html

Mortal Beauty: Arms and Armour of India and China: Exhibition Catalogue. By Karlova

Jim McDougall · 1st February 2021, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzoadler

@Jim McDougall
Unfortunately I have no additions to your comments, but they are really interesting and informative.

Do you can recommend some literature concerning Indian arms?

Thank you very much

I completely agree with Mahratt on his recommendations of books.
Robert Elgoods books are probably the most thoroughly researched, and his material is from many years of field research in India, and his cataloging of armouries there.
The Rawson book is a venerable and useful study of Indian swords that evolved from Mr. Rawson's cataloging of these arms for the Victoria & Albert museum iin the 1960s.

Beyond this, if you use the search function here you will find over twenty years of discussions we have carried on here on these topics on Indian arms. Quite honestly, I have been fortunate to learn much from the guys here and all of us sharing their knowledge, examples and findings.

Pukka Bundook · 1st February 2021, 02:05 PM

Jim and Mahratt have the books well covered I believe.
Jewant Paul's books are not in depth, but give a few rather delightful passages from historical Indian writings, covering specific incidents, battles, etc.
A Very well written book, is "The History of Rajasthan" by Rima Hooja.
She is a quite brilliant writer, and does an admirable job on an incredibly large subject.
Her style is such that she makes the book not in the least daunting, even though it does run to about 1200 pages!

To add a little to Jim's great information, I can only say that what does not help us these days, is that the arms of India are so diffused;
Many arms were found far away from where they were made, as they could be traded, or taken as spoils of war, etc.
Lord Eggerton's book has some V interesting anecdotes, but the arms are described as "from", in other words, where they were found, which can be a greatly different from where they started out!

All the best,
Richard.

Gonzoadler · 1st February 2021, 07:00 PM

Thanks for the friendly recommendations. I will see where I can get some of these books and which is a good introduction. Of course the forum is a very informative source, too.
Regards
Robin

31st January 2021, 04:38 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	To reiterate more on the case for the classification of tulwars attempting to establish regional characteristics, much of which was popularized by Dr. G.Pant in "Indian Arms & Armor" (1980): The impression is that the hilt forms reflect locally favored types which he names and illustrates, however, as can be seen by a map of the huge state of Rajasthan. most of these terms come from places in the geographic boundaries of that state. The silver inlay which appears to remain on this hilt suggests a style of inlay which was created in the Bidri regions of Rajasthan. The style was widely copied and diffused to the point some arms were classified 'Bidri'. The term 'katti' is a term for knife (if I recall) in the Kanada language used iin western India by Coorg's. The term 'Sirohi' is often regarding the highly favored blades from this region for quality, but cannot be defined by any particular characteristic I know of. Other terms like Mewari, Udapuri (actually same region) reflect an industrial center in Rajasthan where considerable production of hilts and swords took place. To classify tulwars by ethicity or cultural denominators is equally difficult as Rajputs, Sikhs, Jains and Mughals all used them without particular favor to any one of these hilt styles. Blades were constantly traded, and diffused throughout sword hilting centers and arsenals. Bikaner (in Rajasthan) is one of the few arsenals whose markings are well established on blades (stippled letters or numbers), and where huge volume of Indian arms have been found. Tulwars were used of course in Sind to the north,northeast, in Punjab (traditional domain of the Sikhs)north, and in Lucknow, Delhi and other key locations of the Mughal empire to north, northeast. The Rajputs were primarily situated in Rajasthan. So decoration and certain motif and styling along with certain hilt elements can be used in some degree with tulwar identification, much as these are considered in degree for period, remembering that these hilts typically may have been produced somewhere in the vast Rajasthan region. Naturally these are simply my own overviews from my own experience in the study of these, and I am certain there are likely different views as well as probably errors, so I welcome any input concerning my comments. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 31st January 2021 at 04:55 PM.

31st January 2021, 07:51 PM	#2
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	@Jim McDougall Unfortunately I have no additions to your comments, but they are really interesting and informative. Do you can recommend some literature concerning Indian arms?

1st February 2021, 02:05 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Jim and Mahratt have the books well covered I believe. Jewant Paul's books are not in depth, but give a few rather delightful passages from historical Indian writings, covering specific incidents, battles, etc. A Very well written book, is "The History of Rajasthan" by Rima Hooja. She is a quite brilliant writer, and does an admirable job on an incredibly large subject. Her style is such that she makes the book not in the least daunting, even though it does run to about 1200 pages! To add a little to Jim's great information, I can only say that what does not help us these days, is that the arms of India are so diffused; Many arms were found far away from where they were made, as they could be traded, or taken as spoils of war, etc. Lord Eggerton's book has some V interesting anecdotes, but the arms are described as "from", in other words, where they were found, which can be a greatly different from where they started out! All the best, Richard.

1st February 2021, 07:00 PM	#6
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Thanks for the friendly recommendations. I will see where I can get some of these books and which is a good introduction. Of course the forum is a very informative source, too. Regards Robin