to restore or not to restore...

[gp]

Originally Posted by fernando

Coins, stamps and antique weapons are certainly not the same thing.

I would not know a stamp can be restored; it surely demands high expertise.
But i have gathered coins for a couple years (before i sold them to afford gathering antique weapons). While restoring coins, for what the strict term means, is new for me, the act of cleaning them, as presently said not to adviced, is unclear for me. I took it that coins are classified by the integrity of their graphic or pictorial contents, as well as their metal structure. The various catalogues i knew available defined their such condition in (at least) four different grades, from scrap to pristine, and respe tive collecting & market value. But i have never heard that cleaning (read washing) the dirt of a coin would 'damage' its value. But then, i have never nagivated in a high end collecting universe, and therefore i ever ignored what was prohibited .

No problem and no offence intended but first hit on google:

"It is best not to clean rare coins as removing the patina can significantly reduce the value of them. For this reason, most coin hobbyists almost never clean their coins. In fact, 99% of coins do not increase in value after you clean them, but many will be greatly devalued.6 sep. 2020

also:

https://coinvalues.com/library/why-y...ean-your-coins
https://www.youtube.com/watch/uljNQ5mMJ98

from own experience I can give examples like lower silver graded coins like the late Illyrian drachmes, late Andalusian Dirhams, late Ottoman Akces, Riga Shilling from Sweden (Kristina) some late Medieval Balkan ( Hungarian, Serbian, Bosnian) next to modern (post 1850) machine struck coins lose their original color.
Auction houses, sellers and serious collectors in the UK, Netherlands, Germany, Austria and USA will refrain and advise against it. Some countries ( Belgium does clean ) accept it as long as the struck print is not affected.

High garde silver and gold ones can be cleaned but again... losing the patina = losing value and if needed one needs to do it carefully with expertise.

As for what to do: it's all in the eye of the beholder at the end...

as for " restoring coins, for what the strict term means, is new for me " many coins ( silver, gold) have been used as dowry, hence holed to add them to a chain, bracelet, headdress and later "repaired" by filling the hole with gold and or silver to its original state.
Especially the Thaler through all of Europe or closer home for you your Reis and Reaals from Fernande I to Manuel I...

[fernando]

Points taken, thank you GP.
I was not about to 'scrub' coins, or treat them in such a manner that they would loose their print and hardly their patina, when it existed.
In any case i would only take the dirt from nickel and low silver coins that were in circulation in recent periods (Portuguese Republic escudos) and never saw need to such procedure with 'real' old coins, like Roman silver denarius and bronze sertestius, gold Portuguese cruzados (of which i had a curious 'clipped' example), American 50 dollars and silver India Karshapanas (these i keep).
But i assume any criticism on handling coins the wrong way, namely at sight of 'demanding' sources like the one in the link you posted.
When i mentioned restoring coins as being new for me, i was not thinking of perforated examples to hang in the neck but in recuperating parts of the metal that were accidently damaged, namely their struck motives.
But pay not much attention; i am only digressing .


-

[David]

People have a lot of different ideas of what "restoration" entails as well as the differences between "conservation" and "restoration".
My thinking is to do as little as possible when possible and not to do anything that is not reversible. In my field of collecting (keris) we are talking about a living tradition and i tend to try to follow the traditions around this as maintained by the culture of origin. Keris have been and are still routinely cleaned and restrained in places like Jawa in order to show the blade in it's best light. And the fascination that many Western collectors have about collecting and maintaining antique dress are not such a consideration within the originating keris culture where sheaths and hilts are continually updated as old dress falls into disrepair. Silver and gold aspects are meant to be kept shiny, so tarnished old silver fittings is not seen as adding any value to your old keris. Broken sheaths and hilts are seen as being disrespectful to the spirit of the blades, so if you are not able to repair broken dress it is generally accepted that new should be commissioned for your blade.
Again, while this may apply to other blades from around the world, this is something that is specific to keris. And no matter what the folks on Antique Roadshow would have to say about it, keris are not old coins or 17th century furnishings. Each genre of collectable antiques is going to have its own rules about this.

[Sajen]

Good that David come back to the topic.

This could become a very interesting thread. There are for sure different opinions about maintenance and restoration and it will be most intersting to read and discuss them.
So I have shown examples which have received maintenance and others which have received real restoration and hoped to discuss this but it seems that coins are more interesting!

[fernando]

Don't worry Sajen; the thread has not yet ended. And while some non weapons restoring considerations took place, be sure your examples are being appreciated .

[fernando]

Would you Gentlemem say that this kind of restoration should have not taken place ?

.

[JBG163]

A real problem with amateur restoration, even cleaning the red rust with 250 or 400 or 600 grit can smoothen an edge (I mean, an edge of a fuller, the two edges of the back etc...) when it is normally sharp. I have seen a lot of «*cleaned*» things, finally harmed more than cleaned. I would say that the best to clean active rust is to use dear antler and oil. And let the black rust and pitting to professional

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by fernando

Would you Gentlemem say that this kind of restoration should have not taken place ?.

Definitely yes, restoration exactly like this. Restored to the original look!

[gp]

Originally Posted by fernando

Would you Gentlemem say that this kind of restoration should have not taken place ?

.

)
it is beautiful and of added value ( moneywise I would not know as I lack that knowledge but defenitely from a conservation point of view. Respeito

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by fernando

Don't worry Sajen; the thread has not yet ended. And while some non weapons restoring considerations took place, be sure your examples are being appreciated .

Don't understand me wrong Fernando, I don't want to earn "ah" & "oh" for the restore jobs but want to read if people agree or have a different view!

Regards,
Detlef