to restore or not to restore...

David R · 23rd January 2021, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

It is a valid observation that you make and applies to many different areas of collecting antiques.

As you observe, a simple cleaning of a coin seriously damages its grade and thus value, while the Japanese sword community often seems intent upon slowly grinding their artifacts to dust.

As a collector of Japanese swords I would point out that it is a bit more nuanced than that, though with a certain amount of truth. The old style care routine did regularly use an abrasive powder, "Uchiko" but dated back to when blood, fat, and bone fragments needed removing....Like a lot of traditions it carried on long after it made sense. Nowadays a sword in polish gets cleaned with isopropyl alcohol and a microfiber cloth, and then gets another oiling. If you are not a trained polisher, don't touch the blade. A proper polish runs at about £100 an inch........

francantolin · 23rd January 2021, 03:14 PM

Hello GP,

For me, it's normal to clean them ''gently ' when the weapons were really bad preserved: lot of red rust of all black rust too,
I think we have to !
Not with a mechanic sander and 80 grain as I already saw

Sure it's a disaster!

Nothing better than an example:
Not talking about money but this all rusty shamshir I have per example,
bought less than 80 Euros couldn't stay like that...
now I can sell it for a fair price but I prefer to collect...

Experience, passion and good skills helps too,
I worked in antique furnitures and collect blades since more than 20 years
it helps ! , half of my garage full of stuff like ferric acid , choji oil, sand stones.
It's like a second job !

Sure if its too damaged or costs an arm and a leg,
better consult a specialist ( difficult to find for japanese swords per example and expensive as David said )
or leave it like that !

Battara · 23rd January 2021, 11:05 PM

I did that once where I made the restoration obviously different from the original. The collector/customer never came back to me again.

It appears that the weaponry collecting community wants restorations that meld into the rest of the piece in my experience.

Sajen · 24th January 2021, 02:07 PM

I personally see it like with old cars, either bring it back to former glory or bring it working and in a usable condition. Who wants to collect wrecks?

Some samples of my collection before and after, choice by self!

Sajen · 24th January 2021, 02:13 PM

A few more. I would be able to show several more examples.

gp · 25th January 2021, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I personally see it like with old cars, either bring it back to former glory or bring it working and in a usable condition. Who wants to collect wrecks?

Some samples of my collection before and after, choice by self!

Thnx a lot for your input, highly appreciated.

As for preservation I fully understand the need. But that requires often (almost) professional level knowledge with many cold weapons.
Or like Detlef showed very well and nicely clean to remove dirt and corrosion.

As for working condition, I doubt if many collectors can use a blade, knife, dagger, bayonet, sword, saber, rapier, or foil as it was intended or is to be used...

No disrespect intended but when I see my daughter fighting with a foil or some friends with a sword and saber, that's a complete different ball game.
So did I had to learn a lot to very slowly and carefully "repair" and restore a few antique foils I bought her with original spare parts ( antique as well) into working condition
Cost me a lot of blood, sweat but luckily no tears at the end: just a fine result.

Nevertheless it might also differ also from type of weapon, use, country and culture ofcouse. Hence having grown up between guys from Moluccan and Indonesian roots and or background, I fully understand and acept without any doubt their criteria and judgement. Also the respect for these weapons in general through my pencak years.

Talking Ottoman cold weapons in the Balkans is a complete different issue as they are very strict ( when I talked to folks of museums in Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Romania and Turkey ):
here a master level ( like Jose showed us) with a good explanation is required.
Otherwise non restored but preserved weapons only are (mostly) accepted.

Again... the eye of the beholder .

Nice to learn all your points of view as it enriches my knowledge about weapons. No need to point out that coins are no weapons, that daft I am not and for you with knowledge of English humor: not pretending to be Delboy neither is my name Trigger....

So looking very much forward to more contributions !

23rd January 2021, 03:14 PM	#2
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hello GP, For me, it's normal to clean them ''gently ' when the weapons were really bad preserved: lot of red rust of all black rust too, I think we have to ! Not with a mechanic sander and 80 grain as I already saw Sure it's a disaster! Nothing better than an example: Not talking about money but this all rusty shamshir I have per example, bought less than 80 Euros couldn't stay like that... now I can sell it for a fair price but I prefer to collect... Experience, passion and good skills helps too, I worked in antique furnitures and collect blades since more than 20 years it helps ! , half of my garage full of stuff like ferric acid , choji oil, sand stones. It's like a second job ! Sure if its too damaged or costs an arm and a leg, better consult a specialist ( difficult to find for japanese swords per example and expensive as David said ) or leave it like that ! Attached Images

24th January 2021, 02:07 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	I personally see it like with old cars, either bring it back to former glory or bring it working and in a usable condition. Who wants to collect wrecks? Some samples of my collection before and after, choice by self! Attached Images

24th January 2021, 02:13 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	A few more. I would be able to show several more examples. Attached Images

23rd January 2021, 11:05 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I did that once where I made the restoration obviously different from the original. The collector/customer never came back to me again. It appears that the weaponry collecting community wants restorations that meld into the rest of the piece in my experience.