it's kriss sajen???

Ria · 23rd May 2006, 03:59 AM

Alam Shah,

Yes, I agree that the blade is not 100% similiar especially on the gold work and the luk number. In respect of having a gold on the blade, I have quoted below from The world Of The Javenese Keris, by Solyom, page 23, "......in part perharps because when patinated its smooth black surface was subtly handsome and in striking contrast to gold, but more perharps because of the powers associated with it" From my personal point of view, if I referred Hartcone's blade, it is not about having a good work of art (gold work), but it is more about to enhance it talismanic value.

Ria

nechesh · 23rd May 2006, 04:26 AM

I dunno, Ria, my feeling is that this is probably a modern piece and as such i doubt there is any talismanic intention in it.
BTW, the passage you quote from Solyom is completely out of context. He is not even talking about keris in this passage, but explaining that other objects such as buckles, nut cutters and other small accessories might have been made out of patinated iron by mpus and may even have pamor. He explains that this was not only because the smooth black surface was considered handsome, but also because of the accepted powers associated with iron. So i don't see how this quote applies here.
I have never seen a talismanic keris sajen with kinatah before. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, but i am not sure that such decoration is in keeping with the intention of the keris sajen.

Alam Shah · 23rd May 2006, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ria

... From my personal point of view, if I referred Hartcone's blade, it is not about having a good work of art (gold work), but it is more about to enhance it talismanic value...Ria

Hi Ria, I understood what you're trying to imply.

Your reference did help me recalled where I've seen the example. Thank you. Btw, there's not many reference to this type.

Could you elaborate how does having the one-piece construction or the metal hilt enhance it talismanic value?

The reason I asked is, because I have a similar type which I hope you could assist.
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

This one-piece type with a longer conventional keris blade, any idea when did this form started to appear? Or had it evolved from a ceremonial piece into its existing modern form?

nechesh · 23rd May 2006, 04:58 AM

That is an interesting keris Shahrial. Didn't we talk about this one once before? I don't remember the thread exactly. Is the hilt welded on? It certainly appears as if it is a seperate piece since there is a seperate gonjo. The blade itself looks old, but the gold work looks new. Have you ever had the inscriptions translated?
I'm not sure i would classify your keris as sajen either, since it seems to have a seperate gonjo and hilt (even if the hilt is welded, it still must be seperate). But it seems to be more than just a keris made for collection purpose.
What is it about this keris that gives you the impression it was used by a healer?

Alam Shah · 23rd May 2006, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Didn't we talk about this one once before? I don't remember the thread exactly.

We did...just hoping that more info can be acquired for this piece...

Quote:

Is the hilt welded on?

Probably...it cannot even be moved, even with the heating technique.

Quote:

It certainly appears as if it is a seperate piece since there is a seperate gonjo. The blade itself looks old, but the gold work looks new. Have you ever had the inscriptions translated?

It appears that way. I believe that the talismanic inscriptions were a later add-on too (at least more than 17 years ago). The inscriptions had been translated, many years back...

Quote:

I'm not sure i would classify your keris as sajen either, since it seems to have a seperate gonjo and hilt (even if the hilt is welded, it still must be seperate). But it seems to be more than just a keris made for collection purpose.

Perhaps? Any idea on its purpose?

Quote:

What is it about this keris that gives you the impression it was used by a healer?

David, esoterically speaking, it's just a probable guess...

nechesh · 23rd May 2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Perhaps? Any idea on its purpose?

Shahrial, i would imagine a good clue into that purpose would be the meaning of the inscription on the blade. I understand why, for esoteric purposes, you might not want to share that info here, but it does limits my understanding of the blade not knowing. I am not trying to convince you to share this info, just pointing out that it would be helpful to answering your question.

Ria, no problem on you misunderstanding of Solyom's passage. Your English is better than my Indo.

I just wanted it to be clear so as not to mislead anyone.

Alam Shah · 23rd May 2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Shahrial, i would imagine a good clue into that purpose would be the meaning of the inscription on the blade...

The inscriptions translations had been updated in my keris gallery album.

nechesh · 23rd May 2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The inscriptions translations had been updated in my keris gallery album.

Thanks!

Given these translations it sounds more like this was a keris for a policeman more than a healer.

23rd May 2006, 03:59 AM	#1
Ria Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 14	Gold work Alam Shah, Yes, I agree that the blade is not 100% similiar especially on the gold work and the luk number. In respect of having a gold on the blade, I have quoted below from The world Of The Javenese Keris, by Solyom, page 23, "......in part perharps because when patinated its smooth black surface was subtly handsome and in striking contrast to gold, but more perharps because of the powers associated with it" From my personal point of view, if I referred Hartcone's blade, it is not about having a good work of art (gold work), but it is more about to enhance it talismanic value. Ria

23rd May 2006, 04:26 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I dunno, Ria, my feeling is that this is probably a modern piece and as such i doubt there is any talismanic intention in it. BTW, the passage you quote from Solyom is completely out of context. He is not even talking about keris in this passage, but explaining that other objects such as buckles, nut cutters and other small accessories might have been made out of patinated iron by mpus and may even have pamor. He explains that this was not only because the smooth black surface was considered handsome, but also because of the accepted powers associated with iron. So i don't see how this quote applies here. I have never seen a talismanic keris sajen with kinatah before. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, but i am not sure that such decoration is in keeping with the intention of the keris sajen.

23rd May 2006, 04:58 AM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	That is an interesting keris Shahrial. Didn't we talk about this one once before? I don't remember the thread exactly. Is the hilt welded on? It certainly appears as if it is a seperate piece since there is a seperate gonjo. The blade itself looks old, but the gold work looks new. Have you ever had the inscriptions translated? I'm not sure i would classify your keris as sajen either, since it seems to have a seperate gonjo and hilt (even if the hilt is welded, it still must be seperate). But it seems to be more than just a keris made for collection purpose. What is it about this keris that gives you the impression it was used by a healer?