Is this saif from Yemen or Hyderabad India for the Yemeni market?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

Jim,

The origin of the trilobate “ Karabela” pommel was attributed to Shah Abbas (1571-1629) who patterned it from the configuration of windows of the mosque in a holy city of Karbala. That was proposed by Khorasani in his book and regretfully Elgood repeated it.
However, there are Turkish miniatures showing same configuration well before Abbas’ times. I had them, but they were lost with the entire computer:-(((

Luckily , the same pommel is seen in the pictures by Durer( 1471- 1529) and by Pietro Befulco( 1471-1503), both well before Shah Abbas was even born. Whether the European development of that pommel was an independent one, or a copy of the Turkish one is uncertain, but the existence of Turkish images and the close contacts of Europeans with Turkish weapons strongly suggests the latter.

Also, karabela pommel was widespread on the Ottoman territories( Turkey proper, Balkans, Hungary, Arabia) or in Poland that fought with the Ottomans or their satellites. but was only seen on some late ( 18-19 century) solitary examples of the “Persian” areal ( Iran proper, India).

Thus, the Turkish claim that Karabela got its name from the town of Karabel, and has nothing to do with Karbala or some fanciful phonetic inventions ( Italian Cara Bella, dear beauty or such) seems to be true.

Ariel, thank you for adding these details on the term 'karabela' and the possible origins of this distinctive hilt form. It was interesting looking back at our discussions on these which go back to 2014 and some time before. Your knowledge on this topic is, as then, remarkable, and I always am grateful for your insights.

I had not heard Manoucher's claim concerning the inspiration for these coming from mosque windows etc, but honestly do not find that notion presented by him surprising. I am also surprised that (as you have noted) Robert Elgood would carry that forward without qualification, as his study on the karabela hilt form ("Arms and Armour of Arabia" 1994) well noted that the origins of the hilt as well as etymology of the term were unclear, and the character of the suggestions cited were without sufficient evidence.

As you have noted, the works by Durer and Befulco long predated Shah Abbas so clearly the hilt form existed long before the 17th century and likely entered European use from Persian or Ottoman context .

With the term, Jan Ostrowski noted in "Polish Sabers: Their Origins and Evolution" (1979), "...the etymology of this strange name remains unexplained", and " perhaps the village of Karabel in Turkey comes closer to probability though there is no evidence other than phonetic similarity".

[Battara]

After etching it to see the laminations I re-polished it but not finely. I will put the final polish soon.