Cuphilt sword for comment

[shayde78]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback!
I knew I could expect the three of you to appreciate the well-worn nature of this piece. Jim frequently cautions about polishing off the history of these old warriors, and I take that to heart. I also thought of Mark since, like Vitrix,I wondered if this had been exposed to saltwater. I didn't want to prejudice the comments by suggesting this outright, but am heartened to hear others share this impression.

One thing that amazes me is how, after hundreds of years, these retain their edge. This one shows some clear nicks that look to be caused by another sharp edge. I will try to upload pictures of these details soon.

Also, I wanted to clarify - this sword DOES have the guardo polvo. YOu can make it out in the 4th picture of the original post. It is a simple diamond shape, and you can see on the exterior of the cup the large rivets holding it in place (transverse of the rivets securing the pas d-ans). Does this narrow down age attribution, or does this muddy things more?

I have a question about the flexibility of the blades on these and other side/arming swords from this time period. Unlike swords of earlier periods, those of this era were being issued to soldiers that were not part of a knightly class, and therefore (possibly) were not as proficient in their use. Was the flex tempered into these blades designed to allow them to withstand poorly executed thrusts and cuts? Or, was this a feature even well trained swordsmen would have favored. After all, if one thrust and contacted a steel breastplate, you might want a degree of flex to ensure the blade didn't fail.

Finally, for now, what would be carried in the off/left hand. This is not the most responsive weapon in terms of providing both an effective offense and defense. If indeed these were carried at sea, I could see a stout pistol serving this purpose. Or any nondescript knife. I'm asking simply to see if there was a convention, or one used whatever was at hand.

Thanks again for you insights! To be honest, I love when you give me good news, but it is always educational

[Jim McDougall]

It has been a great discussion and wonderful to see these wonderful cup hilts together! Thank you Shayde for recognizing my position on maintaining as much of the well earned patina on the 'old warriors', as to me it profoundly heralds the charm and rugged character of the times they have seen.

With regard to these 'going to sea', it was virtually inevitable that many of them did in one way or another. The constant traffic to the 'New World' meant that these among many other forms of sword, particularly 'cutlasses' became present there with men off the vessels.

By the 'dictum' from "Pirates of the Caribbean', there were no 'rules' ......but 'guidelines' as far as swords, their use, etc.

Aboard ships of the line of course, the average sailors were not officially armed with edged weapons, but these were distributed out of arms lockers in the event of potential combat. With the ever present merchant ships, there was certainly more latitude depending on the owners and staff of the vessels, but still there would certainly be the option of having a sword or cutlass for various levels of staff aboard.

With the 'brotherhood' of 'pirates' of course, a broad spectrum indeed, it would seem these vessels were of course autonomous and the members of the ships crew would choose thier own arms.

From what I have understood, combat aboard the decks of vessels was not as common as portrayed in movies via popular literature, and swords and cutlasses were far more employed ashore by the crews at locations of destination or replenishing. In this respect the cutlass was more a 'machete' and used in that utilitariian sense.
The swords (i.e. cuphilts, bilbo's etc) were there in case of combat, whether defensive or offensive.

Well noted that most crews, sailors or other members aboard ships were certainly not typically trained in swordsmanship, while officers usually were in some degree. This factor would lead to the more instinctive use of the 'blade' in more a 'hacking' manner, and call for much stouter blades, as would be expected in most combat circumstances. Naturally, blades are designed for optimum conditions presuming they will be used properly so flexibility is always a consideration. Without it, a blade will inevitably fail at some point.

The long working lives of these swords, particularly the blades ,which often ended up being remounted or repurposed, is the most fascinating factor of them. The Spanish 'dragoon' blades were widely used in the colonies for other weapons beyond simple replacement on the bilbo's and cup hilts, and became present on the 'common' espada anchas in many cases, typically cut down.

There is so much history in these rugged Caribbean forms that its hard to not go on and on but Shayde, VERY well placed questions, and I hope any of this rambling wiill be useful.

On the hilt elements, the 'guardopolvo'is essentially a 'dust guard', though its actual purpose was more to firmly secure the tang of the blade in the cup.
My example has 'ivory' (?) placers wedged in from whateever refurbishing was done on it.

The 'rompepuntas' is the rolled edge around the cup, and theoretically was to foul the point of a rapier in a thrust attack, which of course falls into the sword catcher theory well known in arms descriptions. Personally it seems to me more a refinement in construction and execution of hilt design.