Stilettos

corrado26 · 15th September 2020, 07:08 PM

Just to show you a bundle of stilettos, may be you like them.

Jim McDougall · 15th September 2020, 07:21 PM

Udo, now thats what I call a beautiful 'floral' arrangement!
Stilettos are a fascinating dagger, and there are of course many ideas about how they were in use, and what period etc.
Most interesting are the 'bombardier or gunner' versions which had the often mysterious calibrations graduated on the blade. It seems some of these had curious figures which were said to to represent certain measures used in the 'art' of gunnery.

There is of course the theory that the narrow blade was the perfect size to 'spike' the touch hole of cannon in case of a battery being overrun. It seems a shame that such a beautiful dagger would be deliberately sacrificed for this mundane purpose, better to have a plain spike handy.....but then nobody 'planned' to be overrun.

Anything specific on the examples in this 'arrangement'.?

fernando · 15th September 2020, 07:54 PM

Udo, i will have all four flowers; you can keep the vase

.

corrado26 · 16th September 2020, 09:29 AM

Oh, I forgot one and so I made a further photo. The longest one has a thumb ring and a four edged blade, its hilt is made of wood or horn

fernando · 17th September 2020, 06:53 PM

Are all these beauties yours, Udo ?
Does any of them have the 'centoventi' (grade) marks on their blades ?

corrado26 · 17th September 2020, 07:24 PM

Yes they are all mine but none has a scale on its blade.

fernando · 17th September 2020, 07:28 PM

Still they are a precious treasure, Udo... no doubt. Thanks much for sharing

.

SteveL · 27th September 2020, 03:18 PM

You have an eye for quality. Please hit me up if you ever have any for sale.

Jim McDougall · 28th September 2020, 04:27 AM

The stiletto evolved around end of the 16th c. and was most popular in the 17th c. These were truly examples of the artistry of steel chiseling and while it is often suggested these were used to spike threatened guns, it seems a shame to use these in that manner.

When these were used in Venice as gunners daggers (as previously discussed, in mid 17th c. (see "Gunners Daggers" Marcello Ferenzi, 'Arms & Armor Annual, 1973, pp.170-79). ...the mysterious calibrations degenerated into often spurious gauges to legitimize the possession of what were dangerous assassins weapons.
In those times only artillery gunners were allowed to have these 'fusetti'.

fernando · 28th September 2020, 01:14 PM

I guess the presumed purpose to spike guns while retreating was also a way to bleach their carrying around. As i also believe that these splendid Udo's examples have necessarily belonged to whealthy or high rank owners, who didn't need to justity their possession.

kronckew · 28th September 2020, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

... i also believe that these splendid Udo's examples have necessarily belonged to wealthy or high rank owners, who didn't need to justify their possession.

Bit like the germanic rules that only the Nobility could carry swords, the common muck were only allowed to carry knives. resulting in some rather long messer.

kronckew · 28th October 2020, 10:06 PM

Interesting "Gunner's" stiletto just finished on auction (for more than I was willing to spend).

Interesting crossguard like the breeches of a cannon.

Hope one of our members got it...

fernando · 29th October 2020, 02:21 PM

Do you really think this is period stuff, Wayne ?

kronckew · 29th October 2020, 03:17 PM

...and why not? Always willing to learn.

fernando · 29th October 2020, 03:23 PM

... That would be, in context, a different subject

.

corrado26 · 29th October 2020, 04:03 PM

The crossguard and the blade are probably original but the hilt seems to have the same problem as the one in the thread of "18th august, 19th C. Stiletto". The transition between the crossguard and the hilt is IMHO certainly not the way it should be.

fernando · 29th October 2020, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

The crossguard and the blade are probably original ...

Udo, do you really think the guard is a XVII century part ?

kronckew · 30th October 2020, 12:11 AM

More 18c cannon breeches, but still antique enough. I was thinking of the handle example in the other thread when I posted this one "Pour encourager les autres" and wondering if the readers here also read the other thread.

I must admit I was stirring the pot a bit.

15th September 2020, 07:08 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	Stilettos Just to show you a bundle of stilettos, may be you like them. Attached Images

16th September 2020, 09:29 AM	#4
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	Oh, I forgot one and so I made a further photo. The longest one has a thumb ring and a four edged blade, its hilt is made of wood or horn Attached Images

27th September 2020, 03:18 PM	#8
SteveL Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 16	Stiletto s You have an eye for quality. Please hit me up if you ever have any for sale.

28th October 2020, 10:06 PM	#12
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Interesting "Gunner's" stiletto just finished on auction (for more than I was willing to spend). Interesting crossguard like the breeches of a cannon. Hope one of our members got it... Attached Images

15th September 2020, 07:21 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,951	Udo, now thats what I call a beautiful 'floral' arrangement! Stilettos are a fascinating dagger, and there are of course many ideas about how they were in use, and what period etc. Most interesting are the 'bombardier or gunner' versions which had the often mysterious calibrations graduated on the blade. It seems some of these had curious figures which were said to to represent certain measures used in the 'art' of gunnery. There is of course the theory that the narrow blade was the perfect size to 'spike' the touch hole of cannon in case of a battery being overrun. It seems a shame that such a beautiful dagger would be deliberately sacrificed for this mundane purpose, better to have a plain spike handy.....but then nobody 'planned' to be overrun. Anything specific on the examples in this 'arrangement'.?

15th September 2020, 07:54 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Udo, i will have all four flowers; you can keep the vase .

17th September 2020, 06:53 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Are all these beauties yours, Udo ? Does any of them have the 'centoventi' (grade) marks on their blades ?

17th September 2020, 07:24 PM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	Yes they are all mine but none has a scale on its blade.

17th September 2020, 07:28 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Still they are a precious treasure, Udo... no doubt. Thanks much for sharing .

28th September 2020, 04:27 AM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,951	The stiletto evolved around end of the 16th c. and was most popular in the 17th c. These were truly examples of the artistry of steel chiseling and while it is often suggested these were used to spike threatened guns, it seems a shame to use these in that manner. When these were used in Venice as gunners daggers (as previously discussed, in mid 17th c. (see "Gunners Daggers" Marcello Ferenzi, 'Arms & Armor Annual, 1973, pp.170-79). ...the mysterious calibrations degenerated into often spurious gauges to legitimize the possession of what were dangerous assassins weapons. In those times only artillery gunners were allowed to have these 'fusetti'.

28th September 2020, 01:14 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I guess the presumed purpose to spike guns while retreating was also a way to bleach their carrying around. As i also believe that these splendid Udo's examples have necessarily belonged to whealthy or high rank owners, who didn't need to justity their possession.

29th October 2020, 02:21 PM	#13
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Do you really think this is period stuff, Wayne ?

29th October 2020, 03:17 PM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	...and why not? Always willing to learn.

29th October 2020, 03:23 PM	#15
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	... That would be, in context, a different subject .

29th October 2020, 04:03 PM	#16
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	The crossguard and the blade are probably original but the hilt seems to have the same problem as the one in the thread of "18th august, 19th C. Stiletto". The transition between the crossguard and the hilt is IMHO certainly not the way it should be.

30th October 2020, 12:11 AM	#18
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	More 18c cannon breeches, but still antique enough. I was thinking of the handle example in the other thread when I posted this one "Pour encourager les autres" and wondering if the readers here also read the other thread. I must admit I was stirring the pot a bit.