Persian Dagger

RAMBA · 3rd September 2020, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello,

To me, this looks like a repurposed shamshir blade fragment.

Have a look a koftgari with langet shapes.

Interesting observation.

Oliver Pinchot · 3rd September 2020, 01:24 PM

Considering the goldwork, the blade, whatever it may be, was intended to have a guard with langets, despite it's size. I've seen similar, they are not repurposed, simply unusual. It bears the classic inscription, "There is no hero like 'Ali, and no sword like Zulfaqar," so a surgical application seems unlikely.
The goldwork was done in the mid-19th century.

The grip is made up; the wooden block is decorated with the wristplate from an 18th century armguard. The notion of tourist trinkets is an ancient one in the Middle East and Central Asia. Britain and France, and later, Russia, maintained a presence in Iran for much of the 19th century. It may well have been fabricated as a gift or memento.

RAMBA · 3rd September 2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

Considering the goldwork, the blade, whatever it may be, was intended to have a guard with langets, despite it's size. I've seen similar, they are not repurposed, simply unusual. It bears the classic inscription, "There is no hero like 'Ali, and no sword like Zulfaqar," so a surgical application seems unlikely.
The goldwork was done in the mid-19th century.

The grip is made up; the wooden block is decorated with the wristplate from an 18th century armguard. The notion of tourist trinkets is an ancient one in the Middle East and Central Asia. Britain and France, and later, Russia, maintained a presence in Iran for much of the 19th century. It may well have been fabricated as a gift or memento.

How interesting being, in part, a repurposed wristplate from an 18th century armguard.Very insightful comments. Thanks.

mariusgmioc · 3rd September 2020, 06:10 PM

Judging from the photos alone is tricky and can be misleading, but to my eyes the blade looks very odd.

To my eyes, this blade does not look that it was originally shaped like this. It looks like a classic wedge/triangular cross-section shamshir blade that has been reshaped (hence the apparent wootz steel of the blade). The double edge of the tip may have been made through removal of material. Also the curvature of the blade may have been accentuated by the shaping of the tip.

The koftgari may have been added later and the presence of langet shapes does not make too much sense with the current hilt. So, I believe the current hilt may be an even later addition.

And almost certainly this is not a circumcision knife. A circumcision knife should be a small knife for precision cut and definitely not a khanjar-sized double-edged dagger. Why would one need a 35 cm DOUBLE-edged blade to cut 5 mm of skin?!

ariel · 3rd September 2020, 08:54 PM

I can buy ( with reservations) the unusual shape of the blade and the latter addition of koftgari ( this may be perfectly correct comment).

But the handle makes no sense at all: no known analogies and its ergonomics is unsuitable for man or beast.

I tend to believe that the entire ensemble is a dog’s breakfast, happily bought by a European visitor with either strange taste or with rudimentary ( if any) understanding. Likely both.

I wouldn’t bid on it. Pure IMHO.

3rd September 2020, 06:10 PM	#4
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Judging from the photos alone is tricky and can be misleading, but to my eyes the blade looks very odd. To my eyes, this blade does not look that it was originally shaped like this. It looks like a classic wedge/triangular cross-section shamshir blade that has been reshaped (hence the apparent wootz steel of the blade). The double edge of the tip may have been made through removal of material. Also the curvature of the blade may have been accentuated by the shaping of the tip. The koftgari may have been added later and the presence of langet shapes does not make too much sense with the current hilt. So, I believe the current hilt may be an even later addition. And almost certainly this is not a circumcision knife. A circumcision knife should be a small knife for precision cut and definitely not a khanjar-sized double-edged dagger. Why would one need a 35 cm DOUBLE-edged blade to cut 5 mm of skin?! Last edited by mariusgmioc; 4th September 2020 at 03:34 PM.

3rd September 2020, 01:24 PM	#2
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 462	Considering the goldwork, the blade, whatever it may be, was intended to have a guard with langets, despite it's size. I've seen similar, they are not repurposed, simply unusual. It bears the classic inscription, "There is no hero like 'Ali, and no sword like Zulfaqar," so a surgical application seems unlikely. The goldwork was done in the mid-19th century. The grip is made up; the wooden block is decorated with the wristplate from an 18th century armguard. The notion of tourist trinkets is an ancient one in the Middle East and Central Asia. Britain and France, and later, Russia, maintained a presence in Iran for much of the 19th century. It may well have been fabricated as a gift or memento.

3rd September 2020, 08:54 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I can buy ( with reservations) the unusual shape of the blade and the latter addition of koftgari ( this may be perfectly correct comment). But the handle makes no sense at all: no known analogies and its ergonomics is unsuitable for man or beast. I tend to believe that the entire ensemble is a dog’s breakfast, happily bought by a European visitor with either strange taste or with rudimentary ( if any) understanding. Likely both. I wouldn’t bid on it. Pure IMHO.