Knife for I.D. - U.S. ?

kronckew · 20th July 2020, 05:42 PM

My 2nd favourite old bowie...

My first is a custom 12" blade No. One, I'm not allowed to show it here

If you don't like these I have more...

Jim McDougall · 20th July 2020, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

My 2nd favourite old bowie...

My first is a custom 12" blade No. One, I'm not allowed to show it here

If you don't like these I have more...

NICE!
Note the 'Meditteranean' notch at the base of the blade. These are the early form used by the Bowie brothers. I recall there was an article on these notches in "Man At Arms" magazine(I think it was the first issue in 1979). I still have it somewhere, but I think you can an extract of it by calling the magazine headquarters. I still remember that first issue and talking with Andrew Mowbray who had just bought the magazine!

Why cant you show the other one?

Jim McDougall · 20th July 2020, 06:03 PM

This is a Mexican 'Bowie' found in Tucson some years ago, which has a hilt of cholla cactus, native to Sonora. It is of course hard to say when it was made but is certainly about 50 yrs old.
The blade is 8" as is the hilt, so 16" overall. Looked kinda Crocodile Dundee

kronckew · 20th July 2020, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

NICE! ...
Why can't you show the other one?

It's not an antique...

This is the one I'm not going to show:

colin henshaw · 23rd July 2020, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

My 2nd favourite old bowie...

My first is a custom 12" blade No. One, I'm not allowed to show it here

If you don't like these I have more...

Good looking knife, Wayne. What age would you put it at ?

kronckew · 23rd July 2020, 06:02 PM

Colin, Its 200-ish years old, made by the Black Brothers in Arkansas for some guy named Jim. He left it behind at an old mission when he died for an associate named Santa of all things. Merry Xmas, Santa!

Santa left it behind at a swampy place in east Texas not long after when he lost an argument with some Texans and had to run away. Been handed down from father to son since then. How it got to Germany and back thru my family, I am not sure.

More truthfully, It's over a year old now... Maybe three. It's been tarted up, looked too shiny new when it was new. OK, I confess, I am a knife abuser.... (H2O2 & flowers of sulphur gel for the lived in look) It is razor sharp tho after a good thrashing with a diamond hone. It's not going anywhere, It's MINE! MINE I say. Mine. It's one of a pair, the smith liked it so much he made himself one just like it, and hasn't duplicated it since. I shall take his name & location in the USA to the grave as he's retired now.

On a more historic note, the CSA generally used Muskets, smooth bores at the beginning of the War between the states, when the darn Yankees started using rifled muskets, they were able to re-equip themselves with them more reliable and accurate ones, longer ranged Springfields and a few Enfields from the UK. (and a very few Witworth sniper rifles (of "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..." fame -Gen. John Sedgwick's last words) They couldn't afford repeating rifles to any great extent, like the Union could.,. They never engaged at distances close enough to merit a short sword. When we started losing, the bowies were used mainly then for chopping wood, preparing food, and often just discarded because the weighed too much while retreating. They were no longer needed when a lighter knife would do. Thus rare they command fairly high prices now. As noted, unmarked, caveat emptor.

p.s.- the submarine sank a Union warship. then disappeared, it sank with all hands - probably from lack of oxygen. it's engine was the crew hand cranking a prop. Found again a few years ago & recovered. He should have invented the snorkel first. It was in effect, a manned torpedo kamikaze, much like ones the Japanese resorted to more recently. The inventor went on to sell a better one to the UK after the war. It too, sank with all hands, but never sank an enemy. Ah, well. C'est la Vie!

David R · 23rd July 2020, 11:17 PM

" the submarine sank a Union warship. then disappeared, it sank with all hands - probably from lack of oxygen. it's engine was the crew hand cranking a prop. Found again a few years ago & recovered"

Regarding the Hunley submarine, they are now pretty confident that the crew died of shock from the explosion. Their weapon was a bomb on the end of a spar so the shock wave ran straight into the crew compartment and killed them outright. RIP.

M ELEY · 25th July 2020, 05:55 AM

Other possible areas to expand one's searches...

A variant form of Jim Bowie's amazing design is the so-called "Arkansas toothpick". If I recall, they didn't have the the clipped point, but were more spear-headed, like Colin's. I always found the coffin-shaped grips on some of these types quite symbolic!

Check out Neumann's "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" to see the predecessor of the bowie. Many of these rifleman's trade knives had elements of the later bowie.

If you are studying bowies, let's not forget that aside from their Civil War legacy, they fit prominently in the story of the Alamo and Mexican War. Without being too graphic here, it is said that when Sam Houston and his Texican army caught up with the Mexican forces under Santa Anna, the battle devolved into a bloody melee whereby the Americans cut down the enemy using only their bowie knives and tomahawk axes. The number of Mexican casualties was startling and if I recall, something like 1200 cut to pieces in less than 30 minutes!!!

20th July 2020, 05:42 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	My 2nd favourite old bowie... My first is a custom 12" blade No. One, I'm not allowed to show it here If you don't like these I have more... Attached Images

20th July 2020, 06:03 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Mexican Bowie This is a Mexican 'Bowie' found in Tucson some years ago, which has a hilt of cholla cactus, native to Sonora. It is of course hard to say when it was made but is certainly about 50 yrs old. The blade is 8" as is the hilt, so 16" overall. Looked kinda Crocodile Dundee Attached Images

23rd July 2020, 06:02 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	Colin, Its 200-ish years old, made by the Black Brothers in Arkansas for some guy named Jim. He left it behind at an old mission when he died for an associate named Santa of all things. Merry Xmas, Santa! Santa left it behind at a swampy place in east Texas not long after when he lost an argument with some Texans and had to run away. Been handed down from father to son since then. How it got to Germany and back thru my family, I am not sure. More truthfully, It's over a year old now... Maybe three. It's been tarted up, looked too shiny new when it was new. OK, I confess, I am a knife abuser.... (H2O2 & flowers of sulphur gel for the lived in look) It is razor sharp tho after a good thrashing with a diamond hone. It's not going anywhere, It's MINE! MINE I say. Mine. It's one of a pair, the smith liked it so much he made himself one just like it, and hasn't duplicated it since. I shall take his name & location in the USA to the grave as he's retired now. On a more historic note, the CSA generally used Muskets, smooth bores at the beginning of the War between the states, when the darn Yankees started using rifled muskets, they were able to re-equip themselves with them more reliable and accurate ones, longer ranged Springfields and a few Enfields from the UK. (and a very few Witworth sniper rifles (of "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..." fame -Gen. John Sedgwick's last words) They couldn't afford repeating rifles to any great extent, like the Union could.,. They never engaged at distances close enough to merit a short sword. When we started losing, the bowies were used mainly then for chopping wood, preparing food, and often just discarded because the weighed too much while retreating. They were no longer needed when a lighter knife would do. Thus rare they command fairly high prices now. As noted, unmarked, caveat emptor. p.s.- the submarine sank a Union warship. then disappeared, it sank with all hands - probably from lack of oxygen. it's engine was the crew hand cranking a prop. Found again a few years ago & recovered. He should have invented the snorkel first. It was in effect, a manned torpedo kamikaze, much like ones the Japanese resorted to more recently. The inventor went on to sell a better one to the UK after the war. It too, sank with all hands, but never sank an enemy. Ah, well. C'est la Vie! Last edited by kronckew; 23rd July 2020 at 06:39 PM.

25th July 2020, 05:55 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Other possible areas to expand one's searches... A variant form of Jim Bowie's amazing design is the so-called "Arkansas toothpick". If I recall, they didn't have the the clipped point, but were more spear-headed, like Colin's. I always found the coffin-shaped grips on some of these types quite symbolic! Check out Neumann's "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" to see the predecessor of the bowie. Many of these rifleman's trade knives had elements of the later bowie. If you are studying bowies, let's not forget that aside from their Civil War legacy, they fit prominently in the story of the Alamo and Mexican War. Without being too graphic here, it is said that when Sam Houston and his Texican army caught up with the Mexican forces under Santa Anna, the battle devolved into a bloody melee whereby the Americans cut down the enemy using only their bowie knives and tomahawk axes. The number of Mexican casualties was startling and if I recall, something like 1200 cut to pieces in less than 30 minutes!!! Last edited by M ELEY; 25th July 2020 at 12:53 PM.

23rd July 2020, 11:17 PM	#7
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,116	" the submarine sank a Union warship. then disappeared, it sank with all hands - probably from lack of oxygen. it's engine was the crew hand cranking a prop. Found again a few years ago & recovered" Regarding the Hunley submarine, they are now pretty confident that the crew died of shock from the explosion. Their weapon was a bomb on the end of a spar so the shock wave ran straight into the crew compartment and killed them outright. RIP.