Spanish Dirk?

M ELEY · 5th July 2020, 08:48 AM

Exactly, Shayde, concerning origin. You are right about the tombak and the beautiful pamour to those spear heads. I also agree concerning the Spanish Albacete style hilt, but with Spanish and Portuguese colonialism and presence in so many of these areas (Philippines, Indonesia, Brunai, etc), a marriage of blade and hilt is not unheard-of. Marlin spikes, whale blubber knives, belay pins, etc, all made great weapons in a fight on the deck. The late, great Gilkerson mentions as much and includes examples of such usage during boardings. I am also curious to see where this artifact will lead us next!

Richard G · 6th July 2020, 12:35 PM

Look at the bundiak spear just posted on the Ethnographic forum.
Regards
Richard

shayde78 · 6th July 2020, 02:04 PM

Thanks Richard!
The buniak spear you reference doesn't quite have the same blade profile, and it looks like it might be mounted by a socket vs. a tang? Still, there is some similarity, so not a bad lead, and I will have to look up additional images to see if there are examples that more closely resemble the 'dirk' in question.

shayde78 · 11th July 2020, 02:56 AM

So, I've been scouring this site and others for any spear heads that match this profile, but to no avail. Nearly every spear head starts barely wider than the tang, then swells to the thicker part of the head before narrowing to the tip.

The blade on the knife in question begins, right at the guard, as wide as it ever gets. It THEN narrows in the scallops of the ricasso, before regaining the same width. It someone can find a spear head with this pattern/profile, that would truly narrow down a place of origin. Otherwise, I'm back to thinking it was always intended to be a knife blade rather than a repurposed spear.

M ELEY · 11th July 2020, 10:51 AM

This is still a hard one to pinpoint. I was sort of imagining an Igorot spear, but if so, it would have been cut down and had the two curved 'spines' removed at the back. It is indeed possible that it is a knife blade made by an artistic craftsman. In ANY case, it is an awesome piece!

Philip · 23rd July 2020, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayde78

The blade on the knife in question begins, right at the guard, as wide as it ever gets. It THEN narrows in the scallops of the ricasso, before regaining the same width. It someone can find a spear head with this pattern/profile, that would truly narrow down a place of origin. Otherwise, I'm back to thinking it was always intended to be a knife blade rather than a repurposed spear.

If you propose that this dagger possibly originated in Albacete (Spain), do you know when the oldest known examples of Albacete daggers with this blade shape date from? And perhaps do you recall seeing any Spanish daggers like this portrayed in medieval or Renaissance art?

Please see attached. Could the shape of your dagger possibly have a link to the distant past, specifically the Roman pugio, a concept that might have lingered in the folk memory of the Spanish provinces? A long shot, perhaps, but I was struck by a certain resemblance.

11th July 2020, 10:51 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	This is still a hard one to pinpoint. I was sort of imagining an Igorot spear, but if so, it would have been cut down and had the two curved 'spines' removed at the back. It is indeed possible that it is a knife blade made by an artistic craftsman. In ANY case, it is an awesome piece! Attached Images

5th July 2020, 08:48 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Exactly, Shayde, concerning origin. You are right about the tombak and the beautiful pamour to those spear heads. I also agree concerning the Spanish Albacete style hilt, but with Spanish and Portuguese colonialism and presence in so many of these areas (Philippines, Indonesia, Brunai, etc), a marriage of blade and hilt is not unheard-of. Marlin spikes, whale blubber knives, belay pins, etc, all made great weapons in a fight on the deck. The late, great Gilkerson mentions as much and includes examples of such usage during boardings. I am also curious to see where this artifact will lead us next!

6th July 2020, 12:35 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 409	Look at the bundiak spear just posted on the Ethnographic forum. Regards Richard

6th July 2020, 02:04 PM	#3
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thanks Richard! The buniak spear you reference doesn't quite have the same blade profile, and it looks like it might be mounted by a socket vs. a tang? Still, there is some similarity, so not a bad lead, and I will have to look up additional images to see if there are examples that more closely resemble the 'dirk' in question.

11th July 2020, 02:56 AM	#4
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	So, I've been scouring this site and others for any spear heads that match this profile, but to no avail. Nearly every spear head starts barely wider than the tang, then swells to the thicker part of the head before narrowing to the tip. The blade on the knife in question begins, right at the guard, as wide as it ever gets. It THEN narrows in the scallops of the ricasso, before regaining the same width. It someone can find a spear head with this pattern/profile, that would truly narrow down a place of origin. Otherwise, I'm back to thinking it was always intended to be a knife blade rather than a repurposed spear.