English Civil War Officer’s Carbine Cross Belt c1630

Fernando K · 14th June 2020, 02:17 PM

Hello

Just to say that the photographs of Blackmore may have been taken with a more modern clip (MOSQUETON in Spanish) I still think that it is very elaborate, mechanically speaking. It's just a poor opinion

Affectionately

Tordenskiold1721 · 27th June 2020, 07:06 AM

I have seen a few Carabiner's and it looks as the real thing to me and based on the good photos I have no reason to believe otherwise.

My question, and it is not only a question as in a challenge or doubting the information given.

What makes this an English officers carbine Cross belt ?

I understand the belt was bought with English civil war items, is this the basis of identification ?

drdavid · 27th June 2020, 08:21 AM

The embroidered symbol is the Prince of Wales feathers, complete with his motto 'Ich Dien', which is a pretty good indication this is English

Tordenskiold1721 · 29th June 2020, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdavid

The embroidered symbol is the Prince of Wales feathers, complete with his motto 'Ich Dien', which is a pretty good indication this is English

Very nice and very rear. Congratulation !!

midelburgo · 30th June 2020, 10:39 AM

What color would have been the cloth originally? Red?

I read from a XVIIth century military tract long ago (no idea which, possibly Crose or Basta), that carabin derived from calabrin, because the first units were raised from Calabria (habsburg army in the valois wars). No idea how reliable is that.

Cathey · 12th July 2020, 05:58 AM

Hi Guys

It is with great relief that I can now confirm that this item is authentic. I must thank Keith Dowen is Assistant Curator of Armour at the Royal Armouries in Leeds for authenticating this piece. I contacted Keith after reading his book Arms and Armour of the English Civil Wars. The belt's exact dating will require further reseach and on Keith's advice I have contacted the Victoria and Albert Museum textile department, however Covid-19 will impact on any response I am afraid.

What we can confirm is that it probably dates between 1620-1688. Aparently due to the addition of the Prince of Wales feathers badge it can only relate to two individuals: Charles Stuart who was Prince of Wales from 1638 to 1649 and James Francis Edward Stuart held the title from 1688 to 1701, although legally he ceased to be Prince of Wales later in 1688 when his father was deposed. It may, for example, have been made to celebrate the birth of James Edward Stuart in 1688.

Now all I have to do is wait, put the belt in a glass frame and find somewhere to display it.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

12th July 2020, 05:58 AM	#6
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	English Civil War Officer's Carbine Belt Hi Guys It is with great relief that I can now confirm that this item is authentic. I must thank Keith Dowen is Assistant Curator of Armour at the Royal Armouries in Leeds for authenticating this piece. I contacted Keith after reading his book Arms and Armour of the English Civil Wars. The belt's exact dating will require further reseach and on Keith's advice I have contacted the Victoria and Albert Museum textile department, however Covid-19 will impact on any response I am afraid. What we can confirm is that it probably dates between 1620-1688. Aparently due to the addition of the Prince of Wales feathers badge it can only relate to two individuals: Charles Stuart who was Prince of Wales from 1638 to 1649 and James Francis Edward Stuart held the title from 1688 to 1701, although legally he ceased to be Prince of Wales later in 1688 when his father was deposed. It may, for example, have been made to celebrate the birth of James Edward Stuart in 1688. Now all I have to do is wait, put the belt in a glass frame and find somewhere to display it. Cheers Cathey and Rex

14th June 2020, 02:17 PM	#1
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello Just to say that the photographs of Blackmore may have been taken with a more modern clip (MOSQUETON in Spanish) I still think that it is very elaborate, mechanically speaking. It's just a poor opinion Affectionately

27th June 2020, 07:06 AM	#2
Tordenskiold1721 Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 71	I have seen a few Carabiner's and it looks as the real thing to me and based on the good photos I have no reason to believe otherwise. My question, and it is not only a question as in a challenge or doubting the information given. What makes this an English officers carbine Cross belt ? I understand the belt was bought with English civil war items, is this the basis of identification ?

27th June 2020, 08:21 AM	#3
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	The embroidered symbol is the Prince of Wales feathers, complete with his motto 'Ich Dien', which is a pretty good indication this is English

30th June 2020, 10:39 AM	#5
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 263	What color would have been the cloth originally? Red? I read from a XVIIth century military tract long ago (no idea which, possibly Crose or Basta), that carabin derived from calabrin, because the first units were raised from Calabria (habsburg army in the valois wars). No idea how reliable is that.