Algerian Long Gun

[Philip]

Originally Posted by corrado26

The lock is certainly not of French style but a British Brown Bess lock that has been decorated

Agreed, but I think the profile of the tail end of the lockplate is a bit too pointed for a Brown Bess lock. However, it could have well been reshaped when it was decorated and adapted for installation on this gun.

[Kubur]

Hi Rick,
Another nice gun!
I agree with you, this one is not Algerian nor Moroccan...

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Rick,
Just a thought, I have no idea re the lock and barrel but the stock appears to me to be circa 17thC European. Here is a photo of my European snaphaunce circa 1700 albeit with probably a later lock but the similarities are there. Both have holes where sling mounts would be although yours now has side rings and the butt has the same type of holes where a butt plate would have been attached these together with the overall shape and carving do suggest to me a European manufacture for the stock. I also think originally the stock would have housed a shorter barrel probably not much longer than the the stock itself.
Hope you are keeping well in these unusual times.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Butt end comparison if you'll pardon the phraseology.
Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

An explanation of the tack holes from our friend Michael.

Butt plates did not normally appear before the 1580's on European military muskets, and they were made of very thin hammered iron attached not by nails but by tacks, with small, irregularly shaped but mostly rectangular heads.

Attached are details of a very fine German (Suhl) matchlock musket, ca. 1590-1600, overall length 1.67 m, weight 8.4 kgs, preserved in as-new condition; author's collection.

Only during the first half of the 18th c., butt plates got thicker and more figured, made of either iron or brass - depending on the material employed for the rest of the mounts.


Best,
Michael
Attached Images

Matchlock is offline

[rickystl]

Hi Stu

Thanks for you comments. I still believe this gun has an Algerian origin. Will elaborate further below.

Thanks Oliver. Yes, you can see a bit of Taouzilt influence in the butt stock. But the smaller size of the slight fishtail leads me back to Algerian again.

Hi Coradoand Philip: What I meant by "French" was the mechanics of the lock versus the style. I should have clarified that. My Bad. Indeed the lock style is a rough, locally made copy of the British 3rd Model Brown Bess lock, which pattern was extensively copied on Afghan guns, and on occasion in other regions. To me, the engraving on the lock looks like a generic Balkan style. See detached lock below.....

Rick

[rickystl]

Hi Norman

I remember this gun of yours very well, with it's rare Scottish snaphaunce lock and trigger. Notice how similar the butt stock shape is to my gun, with it's thumb groove set further to the rear in the wrist area.
And I very much agree with you ref butt plates. It seems that most of the Ottoman/Eastern stock styles originated from European forms from the 17th Century or earlier. Amazing how long that persisted.
I've been doing well. Been working from home since March 18. And it appears that will continue at least through May. Thank goodness the shooting range is open. LOL Hope you are doing well also.

Hi Kubur !! That photo looks like he is aiming a percussion shotgun.

Rick

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Butt end comparison if you'll pardon the phraseology.
Regards,
Norman.

Nice butts!
I just want to add that most of the Moroccan long guns are late copies of English and Dutch snaphaunce muskets with large downward butts. But I think this one is from another part of the world..

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Nice butts!
I just want to add that most of the Moroccan long guns are late copies of English and Dutch snaphaunce muskets with large downward butts. But I think this one is from another part of the world..

Hi Kubur,
The gun shown in your photo at #13 above, looks to be a pinfire, as the hammer noses overlap the barrels at the breech.(They are not cocked either so it is obviously a posed pic). Certainly NOT a percussion gun. Likely to be of French manufacture. Though it is hard to tell from your photo, the action looks to be what is called Lefauchaux. The gun opens by a FORWARD facing lever under the action. I doubt that the user would have found it easy to get suitable cartridges!
Stu

[qusko]

Hi Rick,

Additional examples I have found attached.

I tend to say it's Algerian musket, but in some places it was also referred as Moroccan.

Please check the butt style in the complete examples. It has a little bit wider butt plate. Maybe it's bone, but also, in some examples, it might be wood.