Centipede Aceh

[Battara]

Thank you Fernando!

[josh stout]

The "five deadly venoms" isn't just a classic kung-fu film. The centipede, snake, lizard, scorpion and toad are the classic deadly animals of Chinese folklore. Indonesian mythology holds similar ideas about venomous animals, including a widespread belief in poisonous lizards (not so ridiculous considering the Komodo dragon, a toxic Indonesian lizard with lots of untested relatives.).

The keris is clearly a snake (or more properly, a regal naga), and its use would be like a striking snake, rather than a slicing or chopping technique. It is very interesting though, to see someone has switched in another of the deadly animals, even if it is a recent depiction.

I am posting a related obat (medicine) bottle from Sumatra, perhaps Aceh. It has five deadly animals that are a little different than the Chinese versions. This obat bottle has a Snake, lizard, spider (replacing toad), and a combination centipede/scorpion. Both aspects are clear, from the pincers of the scorpion, to the sinuous body of the centipede with the characteristic forked tip. The snake is represented by carved bands of scales, with the bands in the form of straps. The venoms can be represented in part, and combined, to multiply the effect. The combined power of the venoms gives the medicine its power, or from another point of view, represents the power of the medicine within. At the top of the bottle is a stopper in the form of a crouched figure similar to a keris hilt. This is an obvious reference to a sick figure being cured by the medicine in the bottle, but it is also a figure containing the magic of the deadly venoms. In my opinion, the handle of the keris is similarly controlling a venomous snake, which, can then be seen as ritualistically equivalent to a centipede.

I wouldn't be surprised to someday see a lizard keris.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by josh stout

The keris is clearly a snake (or more properly, a regal naga),

Sorry I have only one book on Indonesian weapons and I have no infos about that. Is it written somewhere or just a personal opinion?

[josh stout]

I don't think I ever questioned that it was a snake. I am sure other forumites can give a more scholarly reply, but there are many keris with a naga head where the kembang kecang usually is, with a wavy tail heading up to the tip.

In martial arts (silat), snake style is for knife fighting.

It is interesting to note that it is the tail of the snake, that is the tip of the keris. Indonesian folklore has snakes that can sting with their tails.

Anyway, I enjoyed the idea that a centipede can magically replace the snake.

I'll look for some keris naga pictures. Modern examples are plentiful on Google, but it would be nice to find an earlier example. I will look on the forum.

[josh stout]

Here is an example that didn't take too long to find. I am sure there are many more.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=naga+keris

[josh stout]

This is my keris, with a more stylized naga. With comparison to more detailed versions, it is clear it is a naga.

[David]

Kubur, the two keris you show are fairly recent creations, one perhaps more artistic than the other (this one was actually discussed on our keris forum at one time). However, i am not aware that there is any tradition in keris culture or in accepted keris pakem that allows for the replacement of the naga form with a centipede. There is no way that the over all form of the keris in any way represents the centipede. It has always been acknowledged as a naga form and there is quite a bit of research and shared knowledge on this to back that up.
But as you have mentioned, there are known pamors such as pamor Kelabang Sayuta which do seem to pay some honour to the centipede. It seems to be a variation on the more established pamor Blarak Ngirid. I don't believe this is a pamor you are likely to find on any older keris however. You are likely only to find it on keris kamardikan.
The centipede does seem to have some folklore attached to it in Indonesia, but again, i am unaware of it being used seriously as a motif in traditional keris culture.
http://indonesianfolklore.blogspot.c...pede-lake.html

[gp]

Originally Posted by josh stout

I don't think I ever questioned that it was a snake. I am sure other forumites can give a more scholarly reply, but there are many keris with a naga head where the kembang kecang usually is, with a wavy tail heading up to the tip.

In martial arts (silat), snake style is for knife fighting.

It is interesting to note that it is the tail of the snake, that is the tip of the keris. Indonesian folklore has snakes that can sting with their tails.

Anyway, I enjoyed the idea that a centipede can magically replace the snake.

I'll look for some keris naga pictures. Modern examples are plentiful on Google, but it would be nice to find an earlier example. I will look on the forum.

a little bit more on silat weapons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_silat

actually its real and full name is Pencak Silat Setia Hati :

a martial art from Indonesia, where it developed into a modern sport version whilst the traditional ( "old" or perhaps better original ) version migrated 1946-1952 to the Netherlands when peoples of that archipelago came to the Netherlands and founded the first Pencak Silat Setia Hati schools for Mollucans, Indonesians and later the Dutch.

A reference was made to a snake but Pencak took a lot of inspiration from the complete animal world and hence incorporated plural styles developed from the tiger, monkey, snake (cobrasystem), frog, grasshopper, horse, crocodile, bat and crane to name a few.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencak_silat


concerning the centipede: check the internet for
Klabang Sajuto – Kelabang Sajuto – Lipan Sajuta

The image of pamor Klabang Sajuto ( see last picture) looks like a millipede. Pamor Klabang Sajuto is also simular to pamor Naga Rangsang. The difference is that the pamor lines of pamor Klabang Sajuto are broken at the ountermost end.
The magical strength of pamor Klabang Sajuto increases the success and it is especially for those persons that have a leading position in civil or military terrain.
Pamor Klabang Sajuto is a form of pamor Miring and Rekan. It is a selected pamor motif and not suitable for everyone.

[David]

Originally Posted by gp

concerning the centipede: check the internet for
Klabang Sajuto – Kelabang Sajuto – Lipan Sajuta

The image of pamor Klabang Sajuto ( see last picture) looks like a millipede. Pamor Klabang Sajuto is also simular to pamor Naga Rangsang. The difference is that the pamor lines of pamor Klabang Sajuto are broken at the ountermost end.
The magical strength of pamor Klabang Sajuto increases the success and it is especially for those persons that have a leading position in civil or military terrain.
Pamor Klabang Sajuto is a form of pamor Miring and Rekan. It is a selected pamor motif and not suitable for everyone.

This copy & paste from The Keris Shop should perhaps best be taken with at least a small grain of salt (and should also be in quotes with source cited since it is a direct copy of text on that site). These are not pamor names that have a very long history in the keris world.

[gp]

Originally Posted by David

This copy & paste from The Keris Shop should perhaps best be taken with at least a small grain of salt (and should also be in quotes with source cited since it is a direct copy of text on that site). These are not pamor names that have a very long history in the keris world.

OK, thnx for the correction and your advise on the keris shop !
And indeed apologies for omitting the source.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Battara

Thank you Fernando!

I agree with Battara and I join him to thanks Fernando.