Italian dagger 17th century??

Sajen · 3rd May 2020, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello Detlef,

The EBay description says "Garter" dagger/dirk. Garter meaning Strumpfband in German, so again pointing towards "prostitute dagger"...

Dirk is nothing but a longer straight dagger.

Hello Marius,

You never should give something to ebay descriptions or auction house descriptions (see for example the description from the auction house for the example in question)!

And of course I know what garter dagger mean!

Have a look to this older thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=naval+dirk

Have special a look to the posted picture from "Small Arms of the Sea Services" by Robert H. Rankin, see attachment. The dagger by the ebay auction was without doubt a naval dirk.

Best regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 3rd May 2020, 02:14 PM

Comparison!

mariusgmioc · 3rd May 2020, 07:40 PM

Very interesting!

I was not aware of this type of small naval dirk.

Thank you Detlef for the explanations.

Anyhow, the one in the original posting is significantly different, much more towards a "garter dagger" (sounds better than "prostitute dagger").

Sajen · 3rd May 2020, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Very interesting!

I was not aware of this type of small naval dirk.

Thank you Detlef for the explanations.

You are welcome Marius!

I have my "knowledge" also only from the given thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Anyhow, the one in the original posting is significantly different, much more towards a "garter dagger" (sounds better than "prostitute dagger").

And yes, I agree with you complete. And I like the term "garter dagger" as well a lot more!

Regards,
Detlef

David R · 3rd May 2020, 09:34 PM

In the UK they are sometimes called "Muff Daggers" as in hidden in a hand muff, the cold weather hand protector.

Sajen · 3rd May 2020, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

In the UK they are sometimes called "Muff Daggers" as in hidden in a hand muff, the cold weather hand protector.

Hello David,

Never heard this term before. But rember that I needed not long ago to explain my son what a "muff" is.

Funnily it's the same term in Germany, we call it as well "muff".

Regards,
Detlef

M ELEY · 4th May 2020, 04:58 AM

Gambler's dirk or prostitute dirk as carried in their garter. I'd say third quarter of the 19th century. I've handled an number of naval dress dirks, but this one strikes me more as a Western-type dagger (many of them were Sheffield-made and sent to the American SW. They fit in nicely with Old West collections). Note this old Cowens auction below. The quillons on the guards of these are typically spherical.

https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/iv...led-dirk-52302

3rd May 2020, 02:14 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Comparison! Attached Images

3rd May 2020, 07:40 PM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Very interesting! I was not aware of this type of small naval dirk. Thank you Detlef for the explanations. Anyhow, the one in the original posting is significantly different, much more towards a "garter dagger" (sounds better than "prostitute dagger").

3rd May 2020, 09:34 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	In the UK they are sometimes called "Muff Daggers" as in hidden in a hand muff, the cold weather hand protector.

4th May 2020, 04:58 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Gambler's dirk or prostitute dirk as carried in their garter. I'd say third quarter of the 19th century. I've handled an number of naval dress dirks, but this one strikes me more as a Western-type dagger (many of them were Sheffield-made and sent to the American SW. They fit in nicely with Old West collections). Note this old Cowens auction below. The quillons on the guards of these are typically spherical. https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/iv...led-dirk-52302