Cut steel decorations on Indian arms

kronckew · 28th April 2020, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

I found one item in my collection that has some figural carving, so here's a photo. The carving is fairly crude and heavily worn, so not exactly a beauty piece.
...

My zaghnol on a very similar motif: As sold, cleaned up a bit after tho.

ariel · 28th April 2020, 08:09 PM

My Aradam ( blade serrated on both edges, if on one edge only, it is an Arapusta)
Mechanical damascus. I would date it to 18 century, but would like to hear opinions

ariel · 28th April 2020, 08:19 PM

And here is my Khyber ( Selavah). A relatively small one, with blade 15 1/4"
Very careful, complex and deep chiseling with subsequent gilding on both sides. As per Jens' assessment, it is of Indian manufacture ( at least the decoration) and of high quality . He cautiously dated it to 18 century, perhaps earlier.
I would be grateful to him for a yet another look and a master class in dating/ attribution. Of course , everybody else is invited.

Cthulhu · 29th April 2020, 05:27 AM

Nice, kronckew. Looks like a thick and useful blade, unlike my zaghnal which is surprisingly delicate.
I have another zaghnal which is rather similarly made, but doesn't qualify for this cut steel decoration thread, being brass.

That's an amazingly intricate khyber knife, ariel. I wouldn't hazard a guess at dates for either of your pieces; I have more enthusiasm than knowledge where these things are concerned.

Really interesting on the tulwar how the serrations aren't present on the belly of the blade; I wonder if that was a practical or aesthetic decision? Not that I expect that's knowable.

ariel · 29th April 2020, 02:07 PM

My personal guess, not supported by any factual knowledge is that the working segment of the Aradam blade was left not serrated for practical purposes, to optimize its slashing ability. The rest was for show, to unnerve the opponent. Serrated blades are great for cutting but require a lot of to-and-fro movements. Their wounds leave a lot of tissue fragment without good blood supply and as such easily susceptible for necrosis and late infection. But that requires days, and at the battlefield you want to finish your opponent right then and there, with a single blow.

28th April 2020, 08:09 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My Aradam ( blade serrated on both edges, if on one edge only, it is an Arapusta) Mechanical damascus. I would date it to 18 century, but would like to hear opinions Attached Images

28th April 2020, 08:19 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And here is my Khyber ( Selavah). A relatively small one, with blade 15 1/4" Very careful, complex and deep chiseling with subsequent gilding on both sides. As per Jens' assessment, it is of Indian manufacture ( at least the decoration) and of high quality . He cautiously dated it to 18 century, perhaps earlier. I would be grateful to him for a yet another look and a master class in dating/ attribution. Of course , everybody else is invited. Attached Images

29th April 2020, 05:27 AM	#4
Cthulhu Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 46	Nice, kronckew. Looks like a thick and useful blade, unlike my zaghnal which is surprisingly delicate. I have another zaghnal which is rather similarly made, but doesn't qualify for this cut steel decoration thread, being brass. That's an amazingly intricate khyber knife, ariel. I wouldn't hazard a guess at dates for either of your pieces; I have more enthusiasm than knowledge where these things are concerned. Really interesting on the tulwar how the serrations aren't present on the belly of the blade; I wonder if that was a practical or aesthetic decision? Not that I expect that's knowable.

29th April 2020, 02:07 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My personal guess, not supported by any factual knowledge is that the working segment of the Aradam blade was left not serrated for practical purposes, to optimize its slashing ability. The rest was for show, to unnerve the opponent. Serrated blades are great for cutting but require a lot of to-and-fro movements. Their wounds leave a lot of tissue fragment without good blood supply and as such easily susceptible for necrosis and late infection. But that requires days, and at the battlefield you want to finish your opponent right then and there, with a single blow.