![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]()
Hello members,
I've recently purchased a North African dagger, it remember slightly to the Algerian bou saadi or khodmi daggers but there are also differences. Could it be a Moroccan genoui? But the ones I've seen look also different. So what it is? It's 11,75" long with a 6,5" blade. Thank you in advance, Detlef |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 408
|
![]()
For me is an algerian Bou Saadi. The genoui blades are longer and have a more symmetrical shape.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
|
![]()
I agree its from Algeria but not Bou saidi but from Iflissen, a Kabyle tribe.
Please look at the tribal designs on your blade they are very close to the flyssa swords. They also have simple blond horn grips. Overall your knife is from the so-called Bousaidi style and definitively Algerian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
Very khodmi-ish, tho the blade shape is less utility than Vendetta stylus style. Some Iflyssan saw a Corsican knife on line and made one in Bou-saadi.
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]()
Hello Séverin,
Thank you for comment! ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Regards, Detlef |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
![]() ![]() Regards, Detlef |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
Genoui is just a koummya with a straight blade.
Yours is a Khodmi. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Regards, Detlef |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]()
Can I assume that this is as well a Khodmi from Iflissen similar to the one the thread started?
Last picture show it together with a Bou saidi. Thank you in advance, Detlef |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,143
|
![]()
Detlef,
The blade reminds me very much of a 19th C. Italian "vendetta dagger." Perhaps a copy of an Italian blade in Magrib fittings. Ian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
Yes, the style is very similar like Kronckew mentioned in up already. But the blade engraving look very crude for a European blade. Regards, Detlef |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,143
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
The khodmi almost universally have the wire wrapping on the grip, unlike the 'vendetta style ones. They may be Bou Saadi made tho. the spines on khodmi often have a tiny step and notch on the spine at the tip. On some this is worn newer ones seen not to have them. Some khodmi with wood/horn gips have been sold in Europe as 'Medieval eating knives'
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Regards, Detlef |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
|
![]()
Hi
You have a North African pseudo pesh kabz. ![]() More seriously it's more a Moroccan janwi or genoui than a khodmi... The grip is very similar to the shula and the size to the janwi. I vote for Morocco. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24849 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
Thank you very much! Like we see seems the variety great and the transitions fluent. I see a lot of resemblance to the one the thread started. Any age guess? Regards, Detlef |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
I would strongly recommend the new book by Eric Claude on Moroccan and Algerian edged weapons.
Charles was kind enough to post its ordering information on the Swap Forum. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Regards, Detlef |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
Well, to each his own. I also ordered Steel and Magic, even though it is not my area of interest.
But these days and for quite some time I am mostly collecting good books. There are so many things I learn from them! One thing I have learned from Eric's book is that nobody, but nobody, in Morocco calls a Koummya "koummya". It is a Khanjar. And that shorted some neurons deep in the amphibious part of the brain....:-) What always puzzled me is the peculiar, practically unique, way of sharpening the edges of Koummya. It is double edged, but the convex side is sharpened only on the distal ~ 1/3 , whereas the concave side has 1/2-3/4 of it sharpened. There are not very frequent examples of Persian khanjars with a very similar construction. Anybody has an opinion whether it is just parallel development or a borrowed idea, and whether the local Moroccan moniker reflects it? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
|
![]() Quote:
We know that you love this game! Yes they say Hanzeer (khanjar). And the Moroccan sword is a saif not a nimcha... ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,167
|
![]() Quote:
See also this western sword dealer/teacher's take on this, and read the comments below, especially what id now the first, "SamNam11 4 years ago I'm a descendent of a nomad tribe from the Arabian peninsula. To use correctly, after the small penetration with the tip forward the holder makes an outward cut like with a kukri. So it never intended to make a full stab in that way of holding. Btw holding it upward with the tip backward was funny to see because in my culture is a sign of lacking the experience with this dagger ![]() https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy9myTnFfUc Last edited by kronckew; 30th March 2020 at 02:18 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
Thanks!
I knew it, but did not dig it out of my amphibious brain. Shame.... Lesson for me: information needs to be stored AND actively retrieved:-) I forgot this rule at my own peril. Will tattoo it in red on my frontal lobe . |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#26 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
I suspect the Moroccans are lazy and only sharpen as little as possible rather than the more normal fully sharpened both edges. It's certainly not because they get there fingers down there. I dislike Khoumiyya in general. Moroccan saifs are OK tho, I especially like the ones we call 'nimcha' even tho they aren't really. I have a 'cavalry nimcha' with a really long blade (Camel corps?) as an oxymoron; and a more piratey nimcha (short) one or two. One of those is guardless but has the std grip profile for one... Weird.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#27 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
|
![]() Quote:
English are not lazy (despite they have Polish workers). Be careful i was banned from this forum for less just because I posted one item that i had on the swap forum... ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,715
|
![]() Quote:
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#29 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,167
|
![]() Quote:
p.s.- Half my family came from areas that are now Poland, were Prussia and Austria Galetia back then. We were the German speaking part. The Polish plumbers and construction workers in the UK usually make the indigenous ones look less than industrious, especially the Union ones. Last edited by kronckew; 30th March 2020 at 11:07 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#30 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
On top of that, Poland has an insane number of gorgeous women. Polish men are not lazy: they understandably try to stay home as much as possible. Can’t blame them
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|