North African dagger for identification

Sajen · 29th March 2020, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi

You have a North African pseudo pesh kabz.

More seriously it's more a Moroccan janwi or genoui than a khodmi...

The grip is very similar to the shula and the size to the janwi.

I vote for Morocco.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24849

Hi Kubur,
Thank you very much! Like we see seems the variety great and the transitions fluent. I see a lot of resemblance to the one the thread started.
Any age guess?

Regards,
Detlef

ariel · 29th March 2020, 08:59 PM

I would strongly recommend the new book by Eric Claude on Moroccan and Algerian edged weapons.
Charles was kind enough to post its ordering information on the Swap Forum.

Sajen · 29th March 2020, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I would strongly recommend the new book by Eric Claude on Moroccan and Algerian edged weapons.
Charles was kind enough to post its ordering information on the Swap Forum.

Yes, I've seen the threads about this book. Just have ordered Steel and Magic since it's about my main interest. When I would have enough money I would have many many more books!

Regards,
Detlef

ariel · 29th March 2020, 10:40 PM

Well, to each his own. I also ordered Steel and Magic, even though it is not my area of interest.
But these days and for quite some time I am mostly collecting good books. There are so many things I learn from them!

One thing I have learned from Eric's book is that nobody, but nobody, in Morocco calls a Koummya "koummya". It is a Khanjar.
And that shorted some neurons deep in the amphibious part of the brain....:-)

What always puzzled me is the peculiar, practically unique, way of sharpening the edges of Koummya. It is double edged, but the convex side is sharpened only on the distal ~ 1/3 , whereas the concave side has 1/2-3/4 of it sharpened.

There are not very frequent examples of Persian khanjars with a very similar construction.
Anybody has an opinion whether it is just parallel development or a borrowed idea, and whether the local Moroccan moniker reflects it?

Sajen · 29th March 2020, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Well, to each his own. I also ordered Steel and Magic, even though it is not my area of interest.
But these days and for quite some time I am mostly collecting good books. There are so many things I learn from them!

Yes, I value good books as well, I will think about!

Kubur · 30th March 2020, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

One thing I have learned from Eric's book is that nobody, but nobody, in Morocco calls a Koummya "koummya". It is a Khanjar.
And that shorted some neurons deep in the amphibious part of the brain....:-)

We know that you love this game!
Yes they say Hanzeer (khanjar).
And the Moroccan sword is a saif not a nimcha...

kronckew · 30th March 2020, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

...

What always puzzled me is the peculiar, practically unique, way of sharpening the edges of Koummya. It is double edged, but the convex side is sharpened only on the distal ~ 1/3 , whereas the concave side has 1/2-3/4 of it sharpened.
...

that's because the jambiyah/koumiyyah/khanjarthrougout the arabic world is used with the point down and the inner curve as the main cutting surface, Most are fully double edged, and westerners and those not used to the old ways assume it's used like a short sabre/talwar.

See also this western sword dealer/teacher's take on this, and read the comments below, especially what id now the first,
"SamNam11
4 years ago
I'm a descendent of a nomad tribe from the Arabian peninsula. To use correctly, after the small penetration with the tip forward the holder makes an outward cut like with a kukri. So it never intended to make a full stab in that way of holding. Btw holding it upward with the tip backward was funny to see because in my culture is a sign of lacking the experience with this dagger

".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy9myTnFfUc

ariel · 30th March 2020, 02:54 PM

Thanks!
I knew it, but did not dig it out of my amphibious brain. Shame....
Lesson for me: information needs to be stored AND actively retrieved:-)
I forgot this rule at my own peril.
Will tattoo it in red on my frontal lobe .

kronckew · 30th March 2020, 03:19 PM

I suspect the Moroccans are lazy and only sharpen as little as possible rather than the more normal fully sharpened both edges. It's certainly not because they get there fingers down there. I dislike Khoumiyya in general. Moroccan saifs are OK tho, I especially like the ones we call 'nimcha' even tho they aren't really. I have a 'cavalry nimcha' with a really long blade (Camel corps?) as an oxymoron; and a more piratey nimcha (short) one or two. One of those is guardless but has the std grip profile for one... Weird.

29th March 2020, 10:40 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, to each his own. I also ordered Steel and Magic, even though it is not my area of interest. But these days and for quite some time I am mostly collecting good books. There are so many things I learn from them! One thing I have learned from Eric's book is that nobody, but nobody, in Morocco calls a Koummya "koummya". It is a Khanjar. And that shorted some neurons deep in the amphibious part of the brain....:-) What always puzzled me is the peculiar, practically unique, way of sharpening the edges of Koummya. It is double edged, but the convex side is sharpened only on the distal ~ 1/3 , whereas the concave side has 1/2-3/4 of it sharpened. There are not very frequent examples of Persian khanjars with a very similar construction. Anybody has an opinion whether it is just parallel development or a borrowed idea, and whether the local Moroccan moniker reflects it? Attached Images

29th March 2020, 08:59 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I would strongly recommend the new book by Eric Claude on Moroccan and Algerian edged weapons. Charles was kind enough to post its ordering information on the Swap Forum.

30th March 2020, 02:54 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks! I knew it, but did not dig it out of my amphibious brain. Shame.... Lesson for me: information needs to be stored AND actively retrieved:-) I forgot this rule at my own peril. Will tattoo it in red on my frontal lobe .

30th March 2020, 03:19 PM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	I suspect the Moroccans are lazy and only sharpen as little as possible rather than the more normal fully sharpened both edges. It's certainly not because they get there fingers down there. I dislike Khoumiyya in general. Moroccan saifs are OK tho, I especially like the ones we call 'nimcha' even tho they aren't really. I have a 'cavalry nimcha' with a really long blade (Camel corps?) as an oxymoron; and a more piratey nimcha (short) one or two. One of those is guardless but has the std grip profile for one... Weird.