Keris with elephant-headed blade.

A. G. Maisey · 8th March 2020, 11:31 PM

This is a Balinese keris, the hilt & fittings do not belong with the blade. By "Balinese", I mean Balinese culture, it could have as easily been made in Lombok as in Bali itself.

In respect of the hilt, my personal preference would be to leave exactly as it is, no restoration attempts, but demount from the blade and keep separate in a situation that would be kind to ivory, ideally this would be controlled humidity & temperature, but for most of us this is not possible. Certainly in a situation where it is not exposed to sunlight or artificial lighting and is protected from dust. A small glass of water in the same space would give a measure of added protection.

Athanase · 8th March 2020, 11:39 PM

Thank you for all your opinions.
It is true that I hadn't thought to look at the length of the blade (47cm approximately) and it should have already directed me to a blade of Balinese origin.
For the handle I will actually pay attention to the protected from the sun and other source of light producing heat.

apolaki · 9th March 2020, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This is a Balinese keris, the hilt & fittings do not belong with the blade. By "Balinese", I mean Balinese culture, it could have as easily been made in Lombok as in Bali itself.

In respect of the hilt, my personal preference would be to leave exactly as it is, no restoration attempts, but demount from the blade and keep separate in a situation that would be kind to ivory, ideally this would be controlled humidity & temperature, but for most of us this is not possible. Certainly in a situation where it is not exposed to sunlight or artificial lighting and is protected from dust. A small glass of water in the same space would give a measure of added protection.

Wow, so that is the proper care of this material. If it is left mounted on metal pesi, will it crack? Is it the same if it were mounted on an all wood stand? Also, what does the water do? Thanks!

A. G. Maisey · 9th March 2020, 07:28 AM

The water supposedly keeps humidity in the air.

Museums keep ivory in humidity & temperature controlled conditions. I cannot afford this, but I do have a lot of ivory, not only hilts, but also ivory carvings. I remember that 40+ years ago, before having and selling ivory got you branded as one of Satan's representatives on Earth, and in any case, just plain evil, dealers in ivory always had a container of water in the case with the ivory. Even in the 1950's museums had containers of water in the cases containing ivory. I don't know if it works, but it certainly doesn't do any harm.

If a hilt, ivory or otherwise has been on a keris for a long time, and the pesi begins to rust, the rust will expand and crack the hilt. A wooden display stand with a wooden support peg should be perfectly safe.

Jean · 9th March 2020, 10:21 AM

According to the late Martin Kerner, the hilt seems to depict Bima (see the hair bun) and I would agree with Marco about the East Java origin.
I hope that you can remove the hilt without breaking it further, good luck! Personally I would try to re-glue it with Superglue if you can close the gap on top of the crack by applying pressure.
Regards

Paul B. · 9th March 2020, 06:56 PM

A similar Bima handle with Balinese blade (?) and unknown dress.
Pics from Czerny auction.

A. G. Maisey · 9th March 2020, 10:23 PM

Jean,

I've always had a bit of a problem in accepting this identification of Martin's. I was never able to get a definitive source from him as to why this hair-bun should necessarily be a Bhima identifier, and I've not been able to locate any reference myself where a Dvarapala with a hair-bun was positively identified by an accepted authority as Bhima.

I do not accept that every time we see a Dvarapala --- and the nature of one of these figural hilts is in fact the nature of a Dvarapala --- we should automatically accept we are looking at Bhima.

I would be very grateful if somebody could provide a solid foundation for this identification of Martin's.

David · 9th March 2020, 11:44 PM

I would be interested to learn more on this identification as well. My understanding from searching for images of Bhima as depicted in Jawa and Bali is that the hairstyle is that is most often used is how we see Bhima in wayang theatre. I have also included a Bali hilt (albeit a contemporary carving) that is most probably intended to be Bhima with this same hairstyle.

Jean · 10th March 2020, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean,

I've always had a bit of a problem in accepting this identification of Martin's. I was never able to get a definitive source from him as to why this hair-bun should necessarily be a Bhima identifier, and I've not been able to locate any reference myself where a Dvarapala with a hair-bun was positively identified by an accepted authority as Bhima.

I do not accept that every time we see a Dvarapala --- and the nature of one of these figural hilts is in fact the nature of a Dvarapala --- we should automatically accept we are looking at Bhima.

I would be very grateful if somebody could provide a solid foundation for this identification of Martin's.

Yes Alan, I agree and this is why I said: "According to Martin Kerner...". I came across another possible identification of this figure as Ravana but without solid evidence as well.
Regards

David · 10th March 2020, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B.

A similar Bima handle with Balinese blade (?) and unknown dress.
Pics from Czerny auction.

Interesting keris. What do you suspect it is a Balinese blade though?

9th March 2020, 06:56 PM	#6
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	A similar Bima handle with Balinese blade (?) and unknown dress. Pics from Czerny auction. Attached Images

9th March 2020, 11:44 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I would be interested to learn more on this identification as well. My understanding from searching for images of Bhima as depicted in Jawa and Bali is that the hairstyle is that is most often used is how we see Bhima in wayang theatre. I have also included a Bali hilt (albeit a contemporary carving) that is most probably intended to be Bhima with this same hairstyle. Attached Images

8th March 2020, 11:31 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	This is a Balinese keris, the hilt & fittings do not belong with the blade. By "Balinese", I mean Balinese culture, it could have as easily been made in Lombok as in Bali itself. In respect of the hilt, my personal preference would be to leave exactly as it is, no restoration attempts, but demount from the blade and keep separate in a situation that would be kind to ivory, ideally this would be controlled humidity & temperature, but for most of us this is not possible. Certainly in a situation where it is not exposed to sunlight or artificial lighting and is protected from dust. A small glass of water in the same space would give a measure of added protection.

8th March 2020, 11:39 PM	#2
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 420	Thank you for all your opinions. It is true that I hadn't thought to look at the length of the blade (47cm approximately) and it should have already directed me to a blade of Balinese origin. For the handle I will actually pay attention to the protected from the sun and other source of light producing heat.

9th March 2020, 07:28 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	The water supposedly keeps humidity in the air. Museums keep ivory in humidity & temperature controlled conditions. I cannot afford this, but I do have a lot of ivory, not only hilts, but also ivory carvings. I remember that 40+ years ago, before having and selling ivory got you branded as one of Satan's representatives on Earth, and in any case, just plain evil, dealers in ivory always had a container of water in the case with the ivory. Even in the 1950's museums had containers of water in the cases containing ivory. I don't know if it works, but it certainly doesn't do any harm. If a hilt, ivory or otherwise has been on a keris for a long time, and the pesi begins to rust, the rust will expand and crack the hilt. A wooden display stand with a wooden support peg should be perfectly safe.

9th March 2020, 10:21 AM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	According to the late Martin Kerner, the hilt seems to depict Bima (see the hair bun) and I would agree with Marco about the East Java origin. I hope that you can remove the hilt without breaking it further, good luck! Personally I would try to re-glue it with Superglue if you can close the gap on top of the crack by applying pressure. Regards

9th March 2020, 10:23 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Jean, I've always had a bit of a problem in accepting this identification of Martin's. I was never able to get a definitive source from him as to why this hair-bun should necessarily be a Bhima identifier, and I've not been able to locate any reference myself where a Dvarapala with a hair-bun was positively identified by an accepted authority as Bhima. I do not accept that every time we see a Dvarapala --- and the nature of one of these figural hilts is in fact the nature of a Dvarapala --- we should automatically accept we are looking at Bhima. I would be very grateful if somebody could provide a solid foundation for this identification of Martin's.